Learn From Our Mistakes

We bounce from time blindness and everyday chaos into the surprisingly hard work of speaking up when money, family, and expectations collide. We share what we’re learning about confidence, boundaries, and how to advocate as a couple when a “gift” starts to feel like a bill. 

• running late dynamics, time blindness, and repairing the vibe 
• unexpected love for Panera breakfast sandwiches 
• studio mishaps, spiders, and a highlight reel of weird bites and stings 
• embarrassment versus avoidance, plus how we “project” confidence 
• the consulting lesson that nobody fully knows what’s going on 
• World Cup visitor content, U.S. scale shock, and why walking everywhere backfires 
• our passenger rail rant and the infrastructure trade-offs 
• parenting misstep of hyping plans too early, then managing heartbreak 
• word of the week: ultra crepidarian 
• Enneagram voicemail, why we like it, and why we refuse to be boxed in by it 
• horoscope skepticism, being open to woo-woo, and why tarot sparks better conversations 
• navigating in-laws when a wedding couch “gift” becomes a major expense 
• setting the precedent early and letting your partner handle their own family communication 

If you've got a thought to share or are looking for a bit of advice on something, leave us a voicemail at the link below!

https://www.speakpipe.com/overthinkingpod

If you'd like to message us you can use the email below or the text link at the top overthinking@theoverbys.com

CONNECT:
TikTok: @jojohnsonoverby / @matt.overby
Instagram: @jojohnsonoverby / @matt.overby
Website:  https://jojohnsonoverby.com/

Transcript

Running Late And Time Blindness

SPEAKER_01 0:04

I was planning on recording the podcast this morning at 9 30 a.m.

SPEAKER_03 0:08

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 0:09

What time is it?

SPEAKER_03 0:10

Uh 11 probably.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Yeah, I thought we'd be done. Yeah, I was planning on doing other things today.

SPEAKER_03 0:16

Oh. Ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:20

Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Could you tell me next time that you think that's ridiculous?

SPEAKER_03 0:24

Yeah. Yeah, I could do that.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Cool.

SPEAKER_03 0:27

Sorry. I was planning on, but I got sidetracked. Working on other things. And then researching the things I was working on because I wasn't sure.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

But you were doing it from your closet.

SPEAKER_03 0:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Right.

SPEAKER_03 0:41

So I had my rollover and then the rollover.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

I just want to explain. I want to set the scene. You know? Okay. So you took the kids to school.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

I did.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

You got home. I said, it's time to record the podcast.

unknown 0:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

You said, All right, I really want to get dressed first. And I said, Cool, because you were still in your workout clothes from your workout this morning. I said, Great. That was 10. 10 a.m.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

So we were already running behind what I thought. And then at 10 35, I walked into your closet and I said, Well, in the bathroom. I didn't walk all the way into the closet. No, no, I was. And I said, Hey Matt. You're like, what? I said, It's been 30 minutes. You're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll I'll I'll be there in a second. I've been and I walked away because I didn't I I said, No, I need you to be dressed and out here. It's now a full hour after that.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

Well, the recording rig, I feel like I tinker with for like 20 minutes every episode. I feel like it used to be a little bit tighter, but now I've had had camera problems and I gotta move stuff in and out of here now. We had a good little run where it got to live all in here and then tell. Fair enough. Fair enough. Yes, it's my fault. We're recording late. Uh I'm a bad person and a bad teammate. So that's just, you know what? That's just where we're at. So what are we up to?

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Did you just I guess I'm just a terrible mommy?

SPEAKER_03 2:20

Yeah. It's a classic in my bag.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

I was just kind of being silly goofy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

I I think I'll still have time to get other things done today.

SPEAKER_03 2:30

I feel like I'm just silly goofy late all the time.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Time blindness. It's real.

SPEAKER_03 2:33

Yeah. It's my my cross to bear.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Is it?

SPEAKER_03 2:37

Everybody's just attached to the cross that I'm bearing. Oh boy. What a metaphor. Anyway, surely we have something else to talk about. We've been

Panera Breakfast Sandwich Gospel

SPEAKER_03 2:47

doing this week.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Yeah, Panera Breakfast Sandwiches.

SPEAKER_03 2:49

Oh, yeah. This is not an ad, but if Panera Breakfast Sandwiches wants to sponsor this podcast entirely.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Specifically.

SPEAKER_03 2:55

Uh yeah, I don't want to.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

Panera Breakfast Sandwich.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

Yeah, I don't I don't want to vouch for Panera across the board. I'm not a huge Panera fan of the rest. The solid bakery.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Matt always says it's hospital food with a really good bakery.

SPEAKER_03 3:09

Yeah, okay. Well, you know, I wasn't gonna denigrate them in case they did want to support the podcast. It's fine. Yeah, expose me. It's great.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

I I love Panera. So they can't always loved Panera. They can just love me.

SPEAKER_03 3:22

And that's why I've been to Panera a lot. And I'm just like, eh, the food, it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

You lived in St. Louis too.

SPEAKER_03 3:27

Yeah, I lived where they still had them as St. Louis bread companies, and the food was just eh. Good bakery. I like the bagels. That's all fine and good. But their breakfast sandwich is A plus. A plus breakfast sandwich.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

They got rid of the chicken sandwich or the turkey sandwich.

SPEAKER_03 3:44

They've slowly over time just chipped out.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

I got rid of every menu item that I adore.

SPEAKER_03 3:48

You had go-to's and they just ever sandwich.

SPEAKER_01 3:51

Turkey. Uh it's totally escaping me, but it was on that Osciago bread. It didn't have arugula on it.

SPEAKER_03 4:00

Is that your current one that has? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

No, I don't have anything from Panera that has arugula on it. It's like an Aciago. Oh, it just flashed in my brain for a second and then went away again. Shoot. It was really sad though. They made it for me for a while when it was off menu for like a year. Yeah. And then eventually they stopped having that bread.

SPEAKER_03 4:19

As a preferred customer of Panera. They were like, yeah, we know you. We can make that sandwich for you.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Sierra Turkey.

SPEAKER_03 4:26

Oh, that's Sierra Turkey. The Sierra Turkey sandwich.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 4:31

Yep. And they would make it for you for a while.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

Yeah, I want one so bad right now.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

Oh, okay. Well, that's gonna be tough.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

It has onions and a really good mayo. I get it without the field greens. I miss it. R.I.P. the Sierra Turkey.

SPEAKER_03 4:46

But their breakfast sandwich is electric and huge. Huge breakfast sandwich.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

And are they new? I don't know if they're new. Matt and I just discovered them though.

SPEAKER_03 4:55

Yeah, it's because we went out on Sunday to get brunch, but we were at 10 30, which is just peak brunch time. We weren't gonna get in anywhere without waiting an hour plus. And we rolled the dice, tried them out, huge win. We've been spreading the gospel of Panera breakfast sandwiches.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

I don't think anybody's been. No one trusts us.

SPEAKER_03 5:15

It's also a breakfast sandwich. So you either need to be a person that regularly gets breakfast out, or you, you know, there's only been one weekend since we've gotten it. We'll see.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

So good.

SPEAKER_03 5:25

We're gonna just start taking people.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

Probably. No, but I will be looking for it when we road trip.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

Yeah, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

I'm gonna plan my breakfast stops around.

SPEAKER_03 5:34

That's a really good point.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

Where a Panera is.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

Yeah, that's genius. That's so much better than McDonald's.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Right?

SPEAKER_03 5:40

Which is our other main, but we had some traumatic McDonald's experiences on our last road trip. You really did. And it's just really put a not that I was a huge fan of McDonald's to begin with. You know, it's always there, but it really sour taste in my mouth.

DIY Studio Decor And Spider Talk

SPEAKER_01 5:56

I'm really sad that I'm gonna pivot really quick. That my creation for you has completely fallen apart into just ruin behind you. Other hand.

SPEAKER_03 6:06

It's but I don't want to bonk my mic.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

It's so bad. It only has well, I mean, the last two are your two favorites.

SPEAKER_03 6:14

So I actually like everything that was on the ground.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Sour apples on the ground. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:18

The the art piece has slowly been de-hot gluing itself.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

I probably should have used something other than hot glue. I didn't think about it being hot in here.

SPEAKER_03 6:26

Well, it was a proof of concept. It was we could use some epoxy, we could nail them in there.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Maybe next time.

SPEAKER_03 6:32

This is the beta. What's funny is I've just been leaving the dead cans right on the floor.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

I see them.

SPEAKER_03 6:37

That's how I know which they fall to the ground and uh you got rid of the Dr.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Pepper one.

SPEAKER_03 6:43

Did I?

SPEAKER_01 6:43

Yeah, it's not back there.

SPEAKER_03 6:45

Yeah, it's just behind the chair.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 6:47

It's it's back here. I was gonna say, I haven't seen it.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

That's where all the spiders are living.

SPEAKER_03 6:51

Yeah, we let we let sleeping dogs lie. They they just hit the ground and that's where they live. I've sprayed for spiders in the studio since. So spider watch should be limited.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Okay. Disappointing.

SPEAKER_03 7:02

Good news for you.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

I mean, I was having fun.

SPEAKER_03 7:04

Really?

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:06

You hate spiders though.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

I do, but when they're not on me, it's fine.

SPEAKER_03 7:09

Got it. Because you have a traumatic past with spiders.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

I do have a traumatic spider past.

SPEAKER_03 7:13

Only person I know who's been bitten by a brown recluse and a black widow.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

Yeah, I'm pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03 7:18

So if we travel to Australia, you'll probably get bit by something insane.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

It sounds like I'm really out there doing the most.

SPEAKER_03 7:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

You'd think that I was out in nature more.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

You just get bit by like wild stuff.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

Black Widow was first, and then the following summer was the brown recluse. And then a year ago, two years ago, I got got by a praying mantis. Oh, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 7:43

Which I had to look up if they even stung people.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Yeah, and they didn't sting me. It it whatever that is me.

SPEAKER_03 7:50

Pincered you?

SPEAKER_01 7:51

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 7:52

Slicing hands, you I was bleeding. That's true. I didn't again, I didn't even know they were that I didn't either.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

So and I know they're not a spider, but it does feel like an honorable mention, regardless.

SPEAKER_03 8:02

It was also brown. It looked like a stick bug, and then you got attacked by it.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Well, we didn't see it before it attacked me.

SPEAKER_03 8:09

But then when it fell to the ground, I was like, what was that? And what's it?

SPEAKER_01 8:12

When it initially bit me, I thought that it was gonna be a big spider or a wasp, maybe. It didn't necessarily feel like a sting, but human nature, man.

SPEAKER_03 8:23

Complicated. Most of the time goes great. Again, you don't get bit by mosquitoes or most other stuff. You've been stung by wasps more than most people, I feel like. Or do I just got stung in the finger? Toe?

SPEAKER_01 8:37

I uh was stung in the toe by a wasp at our mailbox. Yeah. It also stung me on the leg, like it got me twice. I've been stung in the finger by a hornet.

SPEAKER_04 8:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

And I got stung by a bee in my forehead when I was a kid. I was about G's age, I think.

SPEAKER_03 8:57

Yeah. I've been stung by stuff, but none of it's that memorable. You've been stung in just truly spectacular ways. Like weird appendages slash insane.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

I remember the forehead. I don't even really remember it. I've just been told that story a lot because it was the first time my mom had ever left me with a babysitter and we were swinging in the backyard and it stung me dead center of the forehead while I was swinging.

SPEAKER_03 9:24

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

And so I don't remember that actually happening. I've just been told that story again and again. Got it. And then I remember the other ones, but they didn't feel the reason I remember the wasp getting my leg and toe so well is I know that's the hornet.

SPEAKER_03 9:40

The hornet, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

The wasp when it got my leg and my toe, I was holding I don't know, one of our children. I think we only had two kids at the time. And I was holding R when he was a baby, and I had G with me down there, and I ran away. I like left them by the wasp nest and ran away.

SPEAKER_03 10:02

We probably did a bad dad and mean mom about this years ago.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

And when I circled back for my kid, that's when I got stung.

SPEAKER_03 10:12

Oh, yeah, that's right. You came back for them at least.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

I did, and they didn't get stung, but huge. I think I I got stung two or three times, and then the hornet was so bad because it stung me right below my nail bed on my index finger. And it was my right hand, which is my trigger hand for my camera.

SPEAKER_03 10:35

Your camera hand.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

And it's when I was photographing constantly. It happened on like a Thursday, and I had a, I don't know, double, triple wedding weekend, and my finger looked like it was gonna explode. Yeah, it was like that where it's really hot and tight, and it was not good.

SPEAKER_03 10:54

I'm sure you weren't supposed to just use your index finger as much as humanly possible. You know, if you were gonna ask a doctor about it, but okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Now you've heard all my stories. That's all I've got.

SPEAKER_03 11:04

Yeah, maybe you should have filed like workman's comp for your finger.

Energy Drink Taste Test

SPEAKER_01 11:07

Yeah, what are you drinking today?

SPEAKER_03 11:08

Uh I had uh bloom, but I drank it all. And then I thought there was water in my water bottle, but there's not, so okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

Matt's not drinking anything.

SPEAKER_03 11:16

Yeah, it's just a dry podcast for me.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

I'm drinking a crisp apple bloom sparkling energy.

SPEAKER_03 11:22

Mmm.

unknown 11:25

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Okay, that was pretty crispy. Pretty good. I only like the apple flavor of the box that you got.

SPEAKER_03 11:31

Really? You don't like the raspberry lemonade?

SPEAKER_01 11:33

No.

SPEAKER_03 11:34

Interesting. But you like the summer splash. I do. Is it the strawberry lemonade?

SPEAKER_01 11:38

Mm-hmm. I like that one. I like apple better.

SPEAKER_03 11:40

I'm surprised you like apple better. Okay. Well, I can. I actually had these on a fairly, fairly good discount, so I can go back to that well.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

I'm a fan of the apple.

SPEAKER_03 11:52

I like the strawberry the strawberry watermelon I liked more than I thought I would.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Sounds nasty.

SPEAKER_03 11:58

It's more strawberry than watermelon.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

I think that watermelon to me is cream cheese for you.

SPEAKER_03 12:04

Yeah, I know. You're I know you're out on it. I'm not saying you should try it. You want to.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Well, I mean, I'll try anything.

SPEAKER_03 12:09

You don't need to try it, though. I don't think you're gonna like it. Yeah, but you can try some of mine when I have one.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

Yeah, I'm definitely not gonna open one for myself.

SPEAKER_03 12:16

Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't do that. But man, we've had just stuff

Father’s Day Cards And Toad Lore

SPEAKER_03 12:22

happening. We had a water feature in our garage. We didn't cover that on the last podcast, did we? Or did we?

SPEAKER_01 12:28

I think we did.

SPEAKER_03 12:29

Well, it continued. I still I I thought I'd fixed it. I fixed it now.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

What else?

SPEAKER_03 12:36

The chair broke.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

The chair broke, Father's Day happened.

SPEAKER_03 12:39

Father's Day happened. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

You're a father.

SPEAKER_03 12:41

I am a father, father of three.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Maybe my worst Father's Day showing ever.

SPEAKER_03 12:46

It was fine. The kids got me Legos, and that was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Well, I prepared, like I did things leading up and I had a plan, and I have just felt bad. I did the kids' cards, I wrote their messages, I made sure I got all that. I wrapped the presents, I did everything, and then my card never got put out.

SPEAKER_03 13:06

G and I were laughing about hers said uh turtly awesome. It had a turtle on it, and we were laughing about turtly.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

It's pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 13:14

Yeah, it was good.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Still kind of like totally if you think about it.

SPEAKER_03 13:18

Well, that's you're getting it. Good job. That was the pun.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

I I meant like the socks that I had and all the themed things that I had that were toadly.

SPEAKER_03 13:30

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

You know this about me.

SPEAKER_03 13:33

Yeah, I guess I did. I thought you were just saying totally like the I know you were.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

That's why when you responded, yeah. So when I was a kid, I thought that we all needed to have, I don't know, mascots. And I picked a toad for some reason because I thought that the graphic was cute. Everything said totally cool. Yeah. And I had that graphic on everything. I had socks, I had a little backpack.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

You've always been so cool.

SPEAKER_03 14:06

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

I just really wanted to commit to a, you know.

SPEAKER_03 14:10

Yeah, no, I love that you branded yourself early and with a toad.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

I was I was hoping it would come more full circle.

SPEAKER_03 14:19

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

It turns out I didn't have that great a taste. So it was hard for it to stick, but I really stuck with it longer than I should have.

SPEAKER_03 14:28

That's okay. You're committed.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:31

You have that toad in you.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

I got that toad in me. Yeah. You know? So you get it. That's great. That's why it was funny to me when sh when when we picked out the turtly.

SPEAKER_03 14:41

Well, that would be doubly funny for you.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Totally's funnier.

SPEAKER_03 14:45

It's closer to the real word.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

That's why it's funnier.

SPEAKER_03 14:47

But it also confused me. You have to kind of see it. It's almost visual over turtly people people get, you know?

SPEAKER_01 14:56

Yeah, but you would never say turtly.

SPEAKER_03 14:59

You say that like I wouldn't totally say turtly. Just as a bit.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 15:06

That's turtly awesome. I'm gonna start doing it.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

I know you are, just because I've said this. I know how you were. I know exactly what you're doing.

SPEAKER_03 15:14

Damn it, you're gonna start saying turtly

Embarrassment And Projected Confidence

SPEAKER_03 15:16

in public.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

That's fine. That does not bother me. Who's the one that gets embarrassed? I guess neither of us really, huh?

SPEAKER_03 15:24

It depends. We get embarrassed about very different things.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

Yeah. What do I get embarrassed about?

SPEAKER_03 15:30

Um me not acting like we're public figures in public. Like me not being aware of like my behavior.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

I feel that way privately and publicly, though. That's not that has nothing to do with I get embarrassed when you act like a jackass. Okay. Like it doesn't matter where we are, I feel that way.

SPEAKER_03 15:52

Yeah, yeah. You get embarrassed when I act like a jackass. That's a good way of putting it.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Why aren't you embarrassed when like that's my question? I don't understand that.

SPEAKER_03 16:02

Oh, I don't know. That's probably fair.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Like, I don't, I don't think that's a reach.

SPEAKER_03 16:09

Fair enough. So you just get embarrassed when I do something embarrassing.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Yeah, I don't think that I qualify very many things as embarrassing.

SPEAKER_03 16:18

Sure. I'm trying to think of a good example. I feel like you get embarrassed handling anything to do with a post office or shipping.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

I'm avoidant.

SPEAKER_03 16:27

You're avoidant.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

I don't feel embarrassed going to do it.

SPEAKER_03 16:31

Okay. I like I don't totally know what you're if we're talking about avoidant tasks.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Like I avoid calling to order food. I'd rather do it online. I will do it. But I'm avoiding it.

SPEAKER_03 16:42

I feel like almost generational.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

And I don't but I don't think of that as embarrassment. Like I'm not embarrassed to call. I'm not embarrassed to send my food back if something's wrong.

SPEAKER_03 16:51

Oh. I never do that.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

Not like if I didn't like it. Sure. That's on me. If I don't like my food, that's a me problem. But I'm saying if it comes and it has a hair in it, or if it comes and it's completely different than what I ordered, or if mine's totally different, I might and what I get, I am really out on.

SPEAKER_03 17:09

I might send it back.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

Might?

SPEAKER_03 17:12

Probably would send it back. I'm not a hundred percent though.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

I always will.

SPEAKER_03 17:17

Hair doesn't bother me that much. That might be disgusting, but if we're just being totally transparent, I'm like, hairs get everywhere, man. I kind of get it. Like, I sometimes my hair ends up in food, and I don't want to serve that to other people because I feel like they would if I find my own hair in my food, I'm like, okay, I just take it out. I don't eat it on purpose, but it doesn't bother me that much.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

I feel like we've moved past embarrassment entirely.

SPEAKER_03 17:42

Yeah, I the embarrassment was boring, but I did have the thought that I don't actually care if like hair is in my food. Well, you know, shit happens.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

I'm trying to think of something you're embarrassed by.

SPEAKER_03 17:52

I try even if I'm embarrassed, I try not to act embarrassed. I try to power through it, especially if I know it's irrational.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

I would agree with that.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

I think there's lots of like social situations that I get embarrassed or self-conscious during really that I just power through. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

That surprises me.

SPEAKER_03 18:10

Really?

SPEAKER_01 18:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:11

Why is that?

SPEAKER_01 18:12

I don't know. I uh feel like you're generally uh pretty good at projecting confidence.

SPEAKER_03 18:16

That's the the goal. I'm projecting it. It's not coming from a pure place of confidence.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

I feel like I'm kind of the opposite.

SPEAKER_03 18:25

That you're purely confident and you project.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

I feel like I'm generally pretty secure, and then there are moments I don't know, I guess that's just insecurity.

SPEAKER_03 18:35

You get some social anxiety.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

I get I get some social anxiety. I really do.

SPEAKER_03 18:41

Whereas I have worked through a lot of social anxiety by just basically telling myself that everyone has social anxiety. Not really, but that everyone is just kind of on the same playing field and most people are making it up. That was one of my biggest learnings from my first big kid job because I went into consulting at 22 years old, which is a weird place to be because you don't actually have any real world experience, and you have to go into environments and propose solutions, and people look at you like you're 22 years old. What the hell do you know about this? And so then you have to demonstrate that you actually know what you're talking about, or that you work with people that know what you're talking about and that you do a good job relaying information to those people and working out solutions. But the number of times somebody would come to us with a problem, and your job is to solve problems as like an engineering consultant, but it's not like there were off-the-shelf solutions. And so I'd go ask somebody, how do we fix this? And they're like, I don't know, we've never done this, so we're gonna figure it out. We'll find somebody that knows more about specific parts of it and we'll put those parts together. And if it works, great. If it doesn't, we'll troubleshoot it and figure it out. That's when I first learned that nobody actually knows what's going on. And even these guys that were 60 years old in my engineering office were like, we're all people, man. We just doing our best. And if the solution hasn't been done before, we just try.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

I think that that is uniquely reassuring to you, though, because you don't comprehend how smart you are and how grounded you are in terms of understanding how things work and why they work that way.

SPEAKER_03 20:26

I thought it was just because I was scared of failure and embarrassing myself.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

No, I think something that I've really noticed that's different between you and me is I understand how things work, you understand how things work.

SPEAKER_03 20:37

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Huge difference, you understand why they work that way.

SPEAKER_03 20:42

Oh, just like a step past it.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Yeah. And I think there are a lot of people who are on my level who, you know, I know how things work. But you don't know why that's how it is.

SPEAKER_03 20:53

Got it. Got it.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

And that's where you come in.

SPEAKER_03 20:56

With a little bit of science to back up the function?

SPEAKER_01 20:59

Science and generally just information. It happened this week. We were drawing tarot cards with friends over the weekend, and I drew what?

SPEAKER_03 21:09

Uh mycelium.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Mycelium. And I didn't know what that was. And Matt then went on a tear explaining.

SPEAKER_03 21:18

Yeah, it's uh what it was. Like mushrooms.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

It's the you went deeper than that.

SPEAKER_03 21:23

Yeah, I think it's a part of the mushroom. I think it's the is it like the finned part? I don't remember. I had it was it was top, it was closer to top of mind at the time, but maybe it's what you grow them in with from. Might be baby mushrooms. Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

You compared them to aspens.

SPEAKER_03 21:40

Oh, well, I was just saying aspens are like a single, they're not individual trees, they're a whole organism, which is crazy. Fun fact.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Anyway, I'm breezing past all of this because I feel like we're just not all here today. Uh,

World Cup Visitors Discover America

SPEAKER_01 21:54

chronically online this week is not really chronically online whatsoever. Ever, but I really want to talk about it. Harnically online is just becoming a segment where I get to bring up whatever I want to talk about that day. Joe's thoughts. I give it 10 Joes. Uh nobody knows that. And so that's just for me and you. Uh, World Cup.

SPEAKER_03 22:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

And a really funny bit that people are doing online right now with the World Cup is talking to men who follow football internationally in general and going, I think it's really cool that America is making the World Cup such a big deal now, now that it's in the United States. People like really care about it now.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

A sport that like three and a half billion people care about.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

Yeah. And everywhere else it's way more popular. I saw a girl like rage baiting her husband. She's like, I mean, it's never been as big as the NFL, and look at it now. Like, like and it's so funny. People are getting so mad. So uh, but I want to talk about how cool it has been to see all of these teams hosted in various parts of the United States and the content that's coming out of it.

SPEAKER_03 23:05

I haven't consumed as much World Cup actual games as I would have liked, which is funny because we have a baby, and something about major soccer football events, I feel like really captivates babies. I remember having the Euros on when G was a baby, and we just stayed locked in. It was just hours of couch time, but she would watch the games with me. It was really fun. And I think there was a tournament when R was born too. It's some kind of weird tradition. He's a little bit older, but when I had a game on, he was like, what is this? Something about the green and the movement of it. They're into it.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

Yeah, and you've always been a big soccer. You played soccer.

SPEAKER_03 23:47

I played.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

And you like to watch soccer and you keep up. You're a fan.

SPEAKER_03 23:53

I like the game. I don't have a team that I follow really closely. A lot of times people are like, oh, well, who's your team, you know, in Premier League or international? I like following the U.S. team. That's an up and down journey. It's kind of like being a Razorback fan. It uh it's more heartbreak than trying to. I've been playing really well in the world. Don't want to jinx it. They've been fun to watch. But I don't I don't have a single team that I follow. I tend to just Do you have a favorite?

SPEAKER_01 24:18

Like that not that you follow, but you're gonna cheer for them if.

SPEAKER_03 24:22

Not really. I struggle with that because they're so storied that I feel like you have to learn a lot about them to really kind of consider yourself a real fan. You probably don't, but that's how I feel about it. I want to be like an expert.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

If you're gonna do it, you're gonna do it.

SPEAKER_03 24:37

I don't want somebody to call me out on it and then feel embarrassed because I don't know stuff about them.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

Ooh, that's the kind of thing. Okay. So that's why you're not gonna be caught wearing like a Led Zeppelin t-shirt because if I don't have like a novel. If you don't have a deep bass and songs, like somebody's gonna walk up to you and say top ten, and you want to be able to name ten songs you like by the bass.

SPEAKER_03 24:58

Ideally, yeah. Yeah. Or I will just truly go, I like the t-shirt, and you can judge me pretty much.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

So interesting because that is not how you are as a human being, whatsoever. Yeah. Or are you?

SPEAKER_03 25:12

Kinda.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

Okay. So you see.

SPEAKER_03 25:14

That's part of the projected confidence, though. I don't judge you're saying, do I judge other people?

SPEAKER_01 25:18

Yeah, that's what I mean. That's what I mean by you're not like that at all. It's really interesting to me to hear you that you need that for yourself. But if you see me wearing a Nirvana shirt, I can't name a single. And I know I know Nirvana songs because they were a massive popular band, so I've heard them. I couldn't name a single Nirvana song.

SPEAKER_02 25:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

I'm dressing my kid in Nirvana tees every day. I have no idea.

SPEAKER_03 25:43

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

Rolling Stones, couldn't tell you.

SPEAKER_03 25:46

Doesn't yeah, it doesn't bother me for other people to do it because I don't have an interest in calling people on their nose.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

I don't, even some of my top artists in the entire world.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

You don't know song names.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

I feel like you could go name three songs, and I would panic.

SPEAKER_03 26:00

You know the lyrics to the songs, and you can't tell the song titles.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

No.

SPEAKER_03 26:04

Yeah. No, I I don't care if other people know stuff, but I'm terrified that someone would ask me and that I would look stupid. But this person sounds like they're kind of a dick, so I should probably let that go.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

But yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

SPEAKER_03 26:19

You know, I don't process it on that level.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

You should.

SPEAKER_03 26:22

Yeah, I should, but instead, I'd rather just be an expert on everything.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Well, I didn't really want to talk on well, it's not that I didn't want to. My goal wasn't to really focus on the games and things, but instead to focus on the way that people internationally are making tons of content while they're here, experience in the United States, and it is heartwarming as hell.

SPEAKER_03 26:46

Really?

SPEAKER_01 26:47

Yes. For example, Lawrence, Kansas is hosting Algeria.

SPEAKER_03 26:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

They've been doing all of their practicing at KU and they've gotten really into it. Lawrence has. Okay. Like Algeria showed up, and the whole the whole town is like cheering for Algeria because they're hosting them and have like put on these parades and these events and they're getting to know the players, and they're like they're traveling to to see wherever Algeria is playing because they like like Lawrence has been like, no, not team, we're Algeria. Yeah, yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 27:24

It's so funny.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

And it has been so heartwarming because they were really excited that they picked such a small town to set up shop during the World Cup.

SPEAKER_03 27:33

Yeah, because they need training facilities and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

I guess these teams have set up shop at places all over the country. And anyway, then the other thing is we have all these people traveling in to see the World Cup, and people are experiencing all these different United States cultural things like fast food. I watched people tag me in a guy from I believe Japan trying Sonic for the first time yesterday, and he'd gotten a double snash burger from Sonic, and it's him in real time taking to buy. He's like, Oh, the pickles are so fresh. This is delicious. And everybody's like, I've never heard Sonic driving me referring to as fresh in my whole life.

SPEAKER_03 28:18

I have seen stuff where it's like people are gaining weight.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Oh, yeah, I've seen that too. Like, but people are just delighted and everybody's trying to walk everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 28:27

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Did you see all that where they tried to cross or people across like I-92 or something?

SPEAKER_03 28:33

Yeah, there's people in New York who are like, can we walk to New Jersey?

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:37

And it's like kinda hours and hours over like major well, part of this stuff is super expensive to travel around. But it's wild how many people are traveling far distances across within the United States because they're playing in different areas or plan to go to the next. Yeah. It's wild.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

It's really open people's eyes, I think, to how big the United States is. Yeah. Because that's something that when talking to foreign people, especially Europeans, I feel like is the one that any time I'm talking to somebody from Europe, I'm like, I don't understand why this is so hard to grasp.

SPEAKER_03 29:13

Yeah, because most of those countries are smaller than our states.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Right. The thing I think that's hard for me is I have so little education geographically. However, I do understand the scale of other countries and the roadways of other countries. No, I don't have a really good grasp. Like, I couldn't, you couldn't give me a blank map of Europe. I would not nail it.

SPEAKER_03 29:34

I would get, I would do okay. Yeah, I was gonna say, but I feel like you could get the anchors. You could hit France, Italy, yeah, Spain.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

But my point is I wouldn't nail it. And I do think that that is a huge shortcoming on my part in terms of my geographic knowledge.

SPEAKER_03 29:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

However,

Why Passenger Rail Makes Us Mad

SPEAKER_01 29:52

the idea that you think you're gonna be traveling to see Disney when you are traveling to Chicago for a World Cup game.

SPEAKER_03 30:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

And you can just spend the day. Pop over. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:05

That's tough.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

It's like a fundamental misunderstanding of how the scale of everything is.

SPEAKER_03 30:10

Are the people like, what about the train?

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Yes, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_03 30:13

Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

That I don't think. Oh, why would you think that? No. That I'm like, that's really nice that you think that we would possibly invest in infrastructure like that.

SPEAKER_03 30:23

That's really that's sweet.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

But yeah, actually, no. And don't get hurt while you're here either.

SPEAKER_03 30:28

Yeah, we did the transcontinental railroad, and we're like, all right, good enough.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

Nothing makes me angrier.

SPEAKER_03 30:35

The lack of rail?

SPEAKER_01 30:36

There are all kinds of things that frustrate me with the United States, like the lack of parental leave and the lack of any kind of public resources, etc. However, all of that, nothing else gets me as riled up as talking about the fact we have not put passenger train like in. It doesn't make sense. We have the perfect country for it. We have so much rural area that you could run tracks. I understand it would be expensive now. I understand starting from scratch now, but we've put highways in. You're telling me that didn't take well no, it cost it cost a lot of money.

SPEAKER_03 31:14

Right.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

And to maintain and to whatever, what would have made more sense? What would have had less of an environmental impact? What would have moved people at a faster rate?

SPEAKER_04 31:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Tell me the benefit of an asphalt or whatever road and highway versus rail. What's the benefit?

SPEAKER_03 31:31

Your individual options.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Yeah, you sell more cars.

SPEAKER_03 31:34

Sure. But people need cars because we've built our cities to need cars anyway. So you need to have ways to get your cars places.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

I understand. Which is where my anger sits.

SPEAKER_03 31:44

Yeah, but like, what are we gonna do now?

SPEAKER_01 31:46

I I hear you.

SPEAKER_03 31:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

I hear you. That's why it makes me angry, though.

SPEAKER_03 31:51

We spend all our money on wars now, okay? So we don't have money to put into infrastructure and/or changing urban planning.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Uh huh. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:01

That's just how we roll.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:02

We don't need to turn this into capitalism corner again.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

Okay. Bad dad, mean mom.

Parenting Mistake: Overpromising Plans

SPEAKER_03 32:07

Bad dad, mean mom. Surely I feel like there was definitely some examples from this week.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

Okay. I have one this week.

SPEAKER_03 32:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

And that is I made the mistake again of telling my kids that somebody was coming to visit them.

SPEAKER_02 32:19

Oops.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

Like, I have got to stop telling them our plans unless it's 10 minutes before our plans. I hate it.

SPEAKER_03 32:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Their grandparents were supposed to come for a day trip on Saturday, and they called us morning oven canceled. And I had hyped these kids up. They had been asking when their grandparents were coming next, when they were gonna see them. Yeah. And so I was like, Oh, I'm gonna make their day. The day before, I was like, all right, this is what we're doing. We're going to your favorite spot for lunch. You're gonna get this cookie that you like.

SPEAKER_03 32:52

I think even in the morning, I told them.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like they they were jazzer-sized, okay, ready to go. And then I had to come out and go, Oh, actually, somebody's not feeling good. Yeah, we're bailing on all of that.

SPEAKER_03 33:06

Womp.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

And they were so like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:09

It was tough.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

And they don't understand, you know? Yeah. And it makes me feel like a terrible person.

SPEAKER_03 33:16

You're not a terrible person.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

I took them swimming and they still were like, I would have rather hung out with grandma and papa.

SPEAKER_03 33:22

Yeah. That's just because they get tired of us. They love a change up. Something about those grandparents. Just they love them. We have a two-variable lifestyle to get them to invest it ahead of time. It's gotta it's gotta be like a vague idea. Strict timeline.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

Yeah, I just hate breaking hearts, you know?

SPEAKER_03 33:41

Yeah. Breaking hearts. That's that's how we roll, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

Definitely this weekend.

Word Of The Week And Re-Record

SPEAKER_03 33:48

Yeah. You want a board of the week?

SPEAKER_01 33:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:50

You want options?

SPEAKER_01 33:51

Uh sure.

SPEAKER_03 33:52

Okay. This one you might already know.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 33:55

You want defenestration?

SPEAKER_01 33:57

Okay. And what's my other option?

SPEAKER_03 33:59

Ultra crepidarian.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

Those are the same.

SPEAKER_03 34:04

They're not the same.

SPEAKER_01 34:05

Say it again.

SPEAKER_03 34:07

Defenestration.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 34:09

Or ultra crepidarian.

SPEAKER_01 34:11

Ultra crepidarian.

SPEAKER_03 34:12

Ultra crepidarian.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

U-L-T-R-A-C-R-E P T A R I A N.

SPEAKER_03 34:24

No, I think I think you got lost there. Ultra C R E P I D A R I A N. Crepidarian.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Crepidarian. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:35

You went with a T I you can create a side. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if you start to spell Crypt.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 34:41

Someone who expresses opinions on matters outside the scope of their knowledge or expertise.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

Oh my god, me.

SPEAKER_03 34:47

Basically a keyboard warrior, a professional armchair expert.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

Me.

SPEAKER_03 34:51

So kind of what we do here.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

Ultra crepidarian.

SPEAKER_03 34:55

Ultra crepidarian.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

That would be a good podcast name.

SPEAKER_03 34:59

Would it? It's kind of a mouthful, but might catch the eye. Hard to say.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

Hard to say.

SPEAKER_03 35:07

I think armchair expert probably has done it better, you know.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_03 35:12

It's a mildly popular podcast.

SPEAKER_01 35:14

Well, I want to seem like I really think I know what I'm talking about, though. And armchair expert seems like I don't, but ultra crepidarian makes it seem like I actually think I'm cool.

SPEAKER_03 35:25

Got it. People love a self-confident armchair expert. That's correct. Yeah. Love that. That's good.

SPEAKER_01 35:33

What do we have in terms of voicemails? Emails, text. Voicemails.

SPEAKER_03 35:36

Emails, yeah. Let's hear from some other people. Okay, total transparency. If you're watching the video, our outfits have changed. We're clearly not in the same setup. Our mics went out during the voicemail portion, so we've had to re-record this. So bear with us.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

But I don't think there's anything to bear with. I think we just do voicemails.

SPEAKER_03 35:55

Yeah, we could pretend that it was no.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

I don't think we could.

SPEAKER_03 35:59

Really?

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Yeah, we're not those people.

SPEAKER_03 36:00

Well, no, just video-wise, people would have a very clear Do you think people watch that video? Some people do.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

I think about that a lot.

SPEAKER_03 36:09

Why?

SPEAKER_01 36:10

I uh I listened to a podcast today.

SPEAKER_03 36:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

And I didn't watch the video. I just listened.

SPEAKER_03 36:17

Well, I mean, video is how you cut clips too. We haven't been on the podcast. Totally. I understand. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

No, we're terrible at the clip game, actually.

SPEAKER_03 36:24

It's fine. It's not fine. That's how you promote a podcast these days. But promotions never been in our wheelhouse.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:33

Yeah. But enough of that. Let's get to voicemails, emails.

SPEAKER_00 36:37

Whoop whoop.

SPEAKER_03 36:38

We'll kick it off with a voicemail.

Enneagram Types And What They Miss

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Hey Joe and Matt. After listening to the last episode about the rules of the road, I was wondering if you guys have taken an Enneagram test. I'm an Enneagram one, and ones are described as follow the rules when the rules make sense to you. So I'd be curious if Matt was a number one. Have a good day. You're not a one.

SPEAKER_03 37:01

No, I'm not a one.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

We're very familiar with Enneagram.

SPEAKER_03 37:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Uh we try not to leverage really any personality tests or things like that too much, but I do find them deeply interesting and I do think it's kind of a fun way to get to know people.

SPEAKER_03 37:18

Yeah, it's it's a great tool. What I get annoyed with is when people try to take their Enneagram type and then limit themselves as a person based on their Enneagram. They're like, well, I'm a five, so this is what I do, and I don't do anything else. And it's like, no, you have the ability to expand. The Enneagram is really good, I find learning people's core motivation. Like I'm an Enneagram nine, just to be clear. And I have a very well-developed one wing, I would say. Very so there is definitely, and I'm sure my neurodiversity plays into that a great deal, but a nine's core motivation is peace and just not making waves. And that truly is what drives me. Now I do love a good set of rules. I love rules that I agree with or that I feel are just, and that is where that one wing comes into play. But and eight. And eight. I I don't know eights well. The eight is the challenger. The challenger. Ooh.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

And I love an eight. I have a lot of friends that are eight. I went to dinner with friends last night, and it was a table of eight of us.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

And there were one, two, three, five, five eights at a table of eight people. Four or five. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:38

It's a just crew. Isn't that crazy? That's wild.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

Uh yeah. I love an eight. They really are exceptional. Very direct if they're healthy.

SPEAKER_04 38:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:51

Uh they very much advocate for people. They're known for having a strong sense of justice. And yeah, I'm obsessed. I keep company with a lot of nines.

SPEAKER_03 39:02

Okay, yeah. I feel like it's not the most common. It's the peacekeeper, is what the I think that one's called. Pretty sure. But yeah, we're we're out there just trying to keep everyone.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

I'm an Enneagram three.

SPEAKER_03 39:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

Which is the achiever, which I don't know if everybody feels like theirs is the worst one, but I feel like mine's the worst one.

SPEAKER_03 39:22

Yours, yours has its own unique twists, flair, for sure. Um they get a lot done. I think threes kind of make the world go round.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

Just I feel like eights and sevens make the world go round.

SPEAKER_03 39:40

I think ones.

SPEAKER_01 39:41

No, I think ones make the world go around.

SPEAKER_03 39:43

Yeah, okay. Ones make sure the world keeps going around.

SPEAKER_01 39:46

And two. Honestly, we need all of them.

SPEAKER_03 39:48

That's true. I mean, it's a whole group of people. Um, it encompasses ideally the whole world.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

Everybody has their part to play.

SPEAKER_03 39:56

Yeah, that's true. That's true. Makes sense. Sevens and eights, I feel, are more social.

SPEAKER_01 40:01

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 40:02

When I say threes make the world go around, they make the West.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

Then there's the really interesting uh you can really dive into it, but I always found it really interesting because they called two, threes, and fours the heart. Five, six, and sevens. No, I have something wrong.

SPEAKER_03 40:20

What is it? Emotional.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

I know eight, nines, and ones are the anger.

SPEAKER_03 40:25

Yeah, we're in anger. The mo like the drive or the primary emotion is anger. Uh two, three, four is emotion. And five, six. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

Is seven analytical? I think so.

SPEAKER_03 40:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

Which doesn't feel right. I know. I don't remember. Don't trust me on anything. You can research this.

SPEAKER_03 40:44

Definitely eight, nine, one is anger. I can vouch for that. I remember that. I don't remember. Twos, threes, and fours being emotional makes sense as well. Because four's the artist, two's the helper. Um, I have a lot of fives in my life.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

And five and six being the mind makes sense. Seven's the one that I'm not remembering as well.

SPEAKER_03 41:04

Anyway, seven's not driven by anger, I don't think.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

No, they're not. Anyhow, it's fun.

SPEAKER_03 41:09

Yes, we know a little bit about the Enneagram. We're actually in the same triad.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:14

Which means when we work together, it's great.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

Well, and it's the only triad that's like that.

SPEAKER_03 41:19

Really?

SPEAKER_01 41:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:20

Oh, because a lot of the triads aren't because we're the triad is three, six, nine.

SPEAKER_01 41:24

Uh-huh. And the other ones aren't like that. Like everybody else's. They go to different over and yeah, like a six goes to a two and then a five, whatever. I don't, that's not right.

SPEAKER_03 41:35

But no. We rotate to each other, which means when it works, it works. When it doesn't, we can struggle. The other thing I would say when if you're interested in the Nagram, also take the test and look at what they are like in different ranges. If if you get a number and it doesn't feel accurate, double check what they are like in different uh levels of health. You know, plenty of people will take a test, and I'm like, that doesn't sound accurate. And then you look at the unhealthy traits of whatever that number is, and they're like, uh oh, I might not be doing so good. Yeah. I've found myself in that category before. Love the Enneagram, but I'm not a one. And you're not a one.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

Definitely not. Could not be less one.

SPEAKER_03 42:22

My dad's a one. He is a one.

SPEAKER_01 42:23

I was raised by a one. That's true. And you have a lot of dear friends that are ones.

SPEAKER_03 42:27

Yeah, you

Astrology Woo Woo And Tarot Nights

SPEAKER_03 42:28

you kind of tend to know where you stand with a one.

SPEAKER_01 42:31

They're very I don't have a ton of ones in my life.

SPEAKER_03 42:36

A few, not none, but they have a system and you know how to fit into that system or not. So they're a logic bus, they share my own.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

I would be really curious to know what friendships people like what we see the most.

SPEAKER_03 42:50

Anytime we take compatibility things, and it's like horoscope.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

Our uh horoscope, it's so bad. They're like, I would say it's so bad. Like we don't have a single positive overlap, which I just it's what makes me kind of not mess with that because I feel pretty good about it.

SPEAKER_03 43:12

Yeah, I think we're doing great. Just there it definitely does not believe in us.

SPEAKER_01 43:16

It's like uh maybe I believe in us enough for yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:20

I struggle to believe that the stars really dictate the path of your life, you know?

SPEAKER_01 43:25

I don't think they dictate the path of your life. I do think that there is way more to planets and the placements of things and the way that it impacts our bodies and in turn our emotional health, our hormonal health, all that stuff. I really do. I'm not trying to understand it, but I don't think it's probable that the moon moves the ocean and we're not impacted by any of that. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 43:57

I do know what you mean. I don't know that I Agree, but you know, I definitely don't know that the planet's gravitational pull is affecting us.

SPEAKER_01 44:06

I just I don't they about I can't get on board with it.

SPEAKER_03 44:09

It's okay, it's okay. They're you know gajillions of miles away.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

I'm pretty woo-woo.

SPEAKER_03 44:14

You you're you're open to woo-woo, I would say. Yeah, you're you're woo-woo, you can be woo-wooed very much.

SPEAKER_01 44:21

I'm I'm down for a woo-woo.

SPEAKER_03 44:22

Yes. You're you don't have to fully subscribe, but you're down to learn about it.

SPEAKER_01 44:27

Yeah, I'm like, tell me all the woo-woo.

SPEAKER_03 44:29

Our friends have a real tarot thing going on.

SPEAKER_01 44:31

We've been yeah, we have friends that are really passionate. Tarot.

SPEAKER_03 44:34

Tarot's been fun.

SPEAKER_01 44:35

I like it's well, I've really loved it amongst our friend group because it starts such intentional conversations. And I feel like it's the first group of people I've been around who is really trying to dig in and understand what you're experiencing in your current stage of life, and it really just facilitates a lot of conversations more than anything.

SPEAKER_03 44:56

It's like a lot of things where I think the cards are pretty applicable to most things, but it is fun to like really make the connections and think about stuff.

SPEAKER_01 45:06

Right.

SPEAKER_03 45:06

So or once in a while you get one and you're like, I don't know about that. I'm not seeing it.

SPEAKER_01 45:11

They also carry conversation decks. A lot of our friends, and we'll do that on nights out too. And I think that's really fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:19

What we got a lot of cards involved, but yeah, it's a good time.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

It is a good time.

SPEAKER_03 45:23

But let's get to an email and then get out of here.

The Couch Gift That Cost $1,400

SPEAKER_01 45:27

Hi, Joe and Matt. Love the pod and the banter y'all have. Thank you. Wanted your two cents on a family situation. My fiance and I are getting married in two weeks. We've been together for four years since college and have done a lot of growing up together and continue to do the work to grow and become our best selves. My fiance's grandmother gifts every child a couch and love seat for their wedding gift, which is a huge gift. We're currently renting a house and are saving to hopefully purchase our first home within the next year or two. That being said, our living room is teeny tiny. We would love a sectional, but that just isn't a fit right now. When couch shopping, I asked his grandmother if we could wait to purchase until we've purchased a more permanent home so we can get what we love. She politely shot that idea down, saying she wants this to be for our wedding. And I said, okay, and we kept shopping. There were really only two couches we liked, and I was going to honestly go for the cheaper of the two. His grandmother insisted we get the more expensive, nicer couch. My fiance and I accepted this and said thank you and all of the things. However, when we went to check out, she said she was only paying $1,200, which leaves the bulk of the payment for us. My fiance literally just paid off our honeymoon the day prior, so I ended up paying the latter $1,400. I wasn't expecting to pay at all, much less this amount. His grandmother was kind of pushing us to buy it here and now. Oh, to be able to go back and do it differently. I wish I would have advocated more at the time, but it was very much a put on the spot type of situation. My fiance was so uncomfortable and kind of shut down. So it's our first difficult family thing as an almost married couple. The other grandchildren were gifted a couch and love seat and didn't have to pay a difference, but they were married six to eight years before us, so prices are obviously not the same. His grandmother says she's keeping everything equal, but we ended up paying for the majority of the gift. His grandmother reached out after shopping and asked if we needed a bit more money since we paid so much. I was hesitant, but said we would appreciate that greatly as I'm a teacher and just finished grad school, and my fiance is prepping to go back to school here in the next few months. Next thing I hear, his grandmother is telling his whole family I wasn't appreciative or grateful for this gift that I honestly don't want anymore. I just feel weird. I feel much more comfortable telling my side of the family, hey, we can't afford this, or hey, this is too much for us right now. How do you navigate in-laws? I wish my fiance and I would have spoken up more, but I also want to give us the space and opportunity to learn from the situation. How do you learn to advocate for your family rather than prioritizing your relatives?

SPEAKER_03 47:55

Yeah, that's not ideal. That is not ideal.

SPEAKER_01 47:58

I have a situation like this. Okay. It's a little bit different because when this happened to me, it was my own family. However, I also didn't speak up. So my mom, six months before our wedding at Christmas time, gifted me the diamond from her original engagement ring. And it had started to fall apart. And instead of having a new ring made, she'd just purchased. My dad got her a new ring entirely. Yeah. And she deconstructed her ring and gave me the diamond at Christmas, you know. Upon gifting it to me, she said that her intention was for me to turn it into a piece of jewelry for me to wear on my wedding day. She was thinking a necklace, and I was really excited. I uh just felt honored that she had done that. And I loved the idea of having a piece of jewelry that I wore forever that I feel is connected to her and I wore on my wedding day, and I'm wearing it right now. I really rarely take it off. Yeah. And my mom and I went to the jewelry together to like pick everything, and it is real gold, it was custom made, etc. And we got done with all of that. Come to find out I was paying. It was, I don't know, it was like $1,100 or $1,200.

SPEAKER_03 49:24

Also paying for a wedding at that time.

SPEAKER_01 49:26

Yeah. And we were paying for our wedding at the time. We were also, what, 25 and 26?

SPEAKER_03 49:32

Yeah, something like that.

SPEAKER_01 49:33

I don't know. It rocked me. And I did not say anything, and I felt all this pressure to do it because my mom wanted me to wear it for my wedding. And I think that if I would have just talked with her and just said, I can't do this right now, it probably would have been fine. And her and I have talked about it since years later. However, I didn't say anything. I spent the money. I think that I really set this precedent that I couldn't stand up for myself. Like I was more worried about how I was going to be perceived and how I was going to be talked about than advocating for myself and what I thought was right. And not that I thought it was my mom's job to pay for it. I just don't think it's somebody else's job to gift you a cost.

SPEAKER_03 50:23

Yeah. The that needs to be agreed on ahead of time. Like getting part of a gift, that's not the end of the world, but you should be disclosing, hey, I'll give you this piece of it or I'm willing to pay this much. That's all fine and good.

SPEAKER_01 50:38

Well, you just can't give somebody an expense.

SPEAKER_03 50:40

No.

SPEAKER_01 50:40

I think that's crazy. I think that's a really good rule of thumb. Yeah. You can say, hey, the other kids got $1,200 and that covered their entire couch and love seat, which I understand is not the case now. But to keep it fair, I'm gonna leave you guys with the same budget. So keep that in mind as we're shopping together. Totally. But that's not that's here nor there. Send send this podcast to your fiance's grandmother and have her listen. No, uh I think that obviously, since the time's already passed, one thing, if you can return it or cancel the order, I would.

SPEAKER_03 51:16

Yeah, if you can return it, that's I think your simplest path forward. And the tough part is also that a lot of this is kind of on your fiance, and I empathize with him because I don't like to make waves again, the peacekeeper. And so I've definitely had a habit of not necessarily speaking up in times where it's been tense and doing the whole shutting down thing. It it sucks that also when you're like, hey, it would be helpful to have the expense for it then to be just kind of you get dragged for it. That's another issue that that's probably more where the confrontation needs to happen and be like, this isn't acceptable. Even more so though, you're not in a home that you're gonna stay in. And so the couch gift is a bummer. And so if there is a way to return it, well, it's a bummer all around.

SPEAKER_01 52:07

Yeah, I I it frustrates me because it feels to me like grandma's making it about her.

SPEAKER_02 52:15

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

And also like holding money over, like I just I don't like the situation. I don't think there's a reason, though, to go around and talk about it. I think return the couch, or you can eat the cost and realize you need to stand up for yourself later. I also think that it's an opportunity to establish that your fiance handles communication with your fiance's family.

SPEAKER_03 52:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:44

Because that's something that is really important to establish early on.

SPEAKER_03 52:49

Yeah, we're not uh especially good at that. And the longer you put it off and the longer I'm I'm laughing at we. Okay, I'm not especially good at that.

SPEAKER_01 53:01

No, it's like I understand it's our dynamic. It just because and I also, Matt's right, in that I have accepted and then stood in format instead of Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:14

Love that, yeah, but it's it is just where we're at. And the issue is the longer you let it go on, the more it builds that as a normal scenario. It just sets a precedent that's not great. And the longer you let the precedent go on, the more people get set in their ways, and the more they'll resent you when you eventually and you resent them. Absolutely. You're not gonna regret setting a better precedent. No, and it's a skill you're gonna probably need to develop at some point, and so this is a good opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 53:47

Matt's working on it.

SPEAKER_03 53:48

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

You know who else is working on it? Me. Yeah, I'm also bad at it. Yeah, it's hard.

SPEAKER_03 53:54

We have a tendency, we love to give people an opportunity, and it's worked out really well for us. When it's not worked out, it's really worked against us. So we we tend to win big, lose big.

SPEAKER_01 54:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:08

When we get got, we get really got. And when it works out, things work out great.

SPEAKER_01 54:13

And I do think there is a way to take the chances without the without the risk.

SPEAKER_03 54:19

Uh especially since you paid more of the couch.

SPEAKER_01 54:22

Yeah, that's crazy. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 54:25

Even returning it, you're definitely money ahead in the situation.

SPEAKER_01 54:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:29

Even if you don't get the couch later, you saved $1,400. Yeah, exactly. This time, that might be more valuable to you.

SPEAKER_01 54:36

No, totally.

SPEAKER_03 54:36

The $1,200 may be there when you actually want to buy furniture. Not to mention, you have no idea what furniture you want at that time.

SPEAKER_01 54:44

Totally. Well, that's the sad part is you got it as a gift for your wedding, and in two years you're gonna sell it or donate it or get rid of it because it doesn't fit into the house that you buy or whatever. Like that stings.

SPEAKER_03 54:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 54:57

Anyway, uh, well, this has been lovely.

SPEAKER_03 55:00

Yeah, good luck to you. Learn from our mistakes.

Key Takeaways And Closing

SPEAKER_01 55:04

Follow the pod. Yeah. Subscribe, rate and review.

SPEAKER_03 55:08

Learn from our mistakes. The theme of the pod.

SPEAKER_01 55:12

Oh, and just like that.

SPEAKER_03 55:15

All right. We actually got this recorded, so bye. Bye.