The Mental Load Line

We jump from sleep deprived chaos to big questions about memory, ambition, and what we owe each other in a partnership. We land on a blunt truth: “things work out” is not a plan if one person is quietly doing the work to make it true. 

Join us as we discuss:

• kids waking at night and how that shapes energy all day 
• being “a sleepy person” and how old schedules linger 
• gaps in childhood memory and what routines we can recall 
• college classes, language struggles, and why confidence sticks 
• how stability seeking can stifle creativity and risk taking 
• the viral pull of Erling Haaland and online sports culture 
• punctuality, ADHD stress, and why urgency becomes fuel 
• refusing to manage a partner and letting consequences happen 
• the difference between staying calm and avoiding responsibility 

If you've got a thought to share or are looking for a bit of advice on something, leave us a voicemail at the link below!

https://www.speakpipe.com/overthinkingpod

If you'd like to message us you can use the email below or the text link at the top overthinking@theoverbys.com

CONNECT:
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Instagram: @jojohnsonoverby / @matt.overby
Website:  https://jojohnsonoverby.com/

Transcript

Tired Parents And Night Interruptions

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Hey everybody.

SPEAKER_05 0:05

Hey hey. How are you feeling?

SPEAKER_02 0:07

In what regard?

SPEAKER_05 0:08

I think it's my turn to feel like I've been hit by a truck today.

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Oh.

SPEAKER_05 0:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:12

It is. Okay. Why?

SPEAKER_05 0:15

I'm just tired.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 0:16

Stayed up too late.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

Yeah, that really confused me.

SPEAKER_05 0:19

Really?

SPEAKER_02 0:20

Yeah. I haven't really talked to you today yet, but I'm still confused what you were doing.

SPEAKER_05 0:27

I had to get everything uploaded.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

You had to get what?

SPEAKER_05 0:29

Everything uploaded. I and I did the video too.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

How late were you up?

SPEAKER_05 0:34

I don't know. The other problem is our kid woke up. That's the one thing. When I stay up late, I can sometimes intercept our children before they try to come to our room.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05 0:42

And I can get them back into their kitchen. Yes, he did, and then he was confused and he came back out. Oh, that's I I yeah. I heard him go by and then he didn't say anything.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

Yeah, he came.

SPEAKER_05 0:54

Then he came back out.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

He tried to cuddle up with me and then he was like, Dada, where's Dada? Which is weird because they don't really attach to you in bed.

SPEAKER_05 1:06

I think they just like to keep tabs on me.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Yeah, they like to know where you are. Their water plug.

SPEAKER_05 1:10

Pre-injury, I was working out early in the morning too, so I wasn't there used to me not being there. I don't know. I'm flattered, I guess. I should be flattered that my son's worried about me and wants me to be around.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:23

Right?

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

I think it's cute. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:26

He's cute.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

It worked out.

SPEAKER_05 1:28

Totally.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Anyway, um, no, I'm tired and I'm sore, but I don't feel as bad as I felt.

SPEAKER_05 1:34

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Post slip and slide.

SPEAKER_05 1:36

I mean, you yet again are like, I'm not tired as you yawn just completely through the statement.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

I think there is a piece of me that is permanently sleepy.

SPEAKER_05 1:49

What do you think did that?

SPEAKER_02 1:50

I think I'm a sleepy girl. I don't think something did that. I think I was like that pre-marriage, pre-kids. Like I have always been a sleepy girl.

SPEAKER_05 2:00

Yeah. That's that's valid. You used to operate on just a wild schedule.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Yeah, but I always slept like 10, 8 to 10 hours a day. Minimum.

SPEAKER_05 2:11

You slept like eight hours at night.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:14

And then you take a couple hours of nap in the middle of the day.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

Every day.

SPEAKER_05 2:18

Yeah. But you were getting your eight hours after staying up until one or two in the morning.

SPEAKER_02 2:23

I would sleep from like two to ten. No. I didn't normally sleep. I was like two to eight thirty, two to nine.

SPEAKER_05 2:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

And then I would take a nap in the afternoon.

SPEAKER_05 2:33

Like two to four or four thirty. I was gonna say like one to three.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

Then I really worked into the evening.

SPEAKER_05 2:41

You had a late siesta.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

And when I was awake, I was working.

SPEAKER_05 2:45

Yeah, you were doing a lot. It was it's because you were doing weddings and you could edit at home.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

My schedule was totally my own.

SPEAKER_05 2:52

And you were trying to max kind of I think your time with other people.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

So you were well, my mornings were for seeing people.

SPEAKER_05 2:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

I kind of operated on a reverse schedule from most people. I would see friends or go get coffee or whatever at nine-ish.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

And then I would come home and I would get some tasks done around the house. And then I would take my nap. And then I would usually pack up all my work stuff, go to a photo shoot, and then I would edit till two in the morning.

SPEAKER_05 3:20

Yeah.

unknown 3:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:23

What that was an interesting schedule to cohabitate with.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

It's been 10 years since I like was doing that. I don't feel like I did that once we lived together as much.

SPEAKER_05 3:32

You absolutely did that. Yes. A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 3:36

You'd be asleep when I left, and then you'd have taken a nap and like seen people early.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

I only remember us having kids now. I've like completely forgotten my memory.

Sleepy Personality And Old Schedules

SPEAKER_02 3:47

That is the number one red flag about me as a person.

SPEAKER_05 3:52

Really?

SPEAKER_02 3:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:54

Your memory?

SPEAKER_02 3:55

Yeah, I have nothing of my own life.

SPEAKER_05 3:57

Oh, got it. It's all short term. You're living memento.

SPEAKER_02 4:01

Well, and I have like a memory or two here. Like if you talk about, oh, this time we were wherever, I'm like, oh yeah, I have a little bit of that. I can tell you what years certain things happened, but I'm good at years, but you haven't remember the day to day at all. Yeah. Like I was thinking about that because I was thinking about how our life is with our kids right now. And I was desperately trying to remember what it was like growing up. Like who helped me brush my teeth? What was the morning routine like? What was it like riding in the car on the way to school with my mom or riding the bus? I don't remember.

SPEAKER_05 4:40

Or the bus. I don't remember the routine type stuff. Now that you say that. I'm trying to think.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

I know your routine from you talking about it. Because your mom always had dinner at home.

SPEAKER_05 4:50

Oh, I meant like brushing teeth and that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

Oh.

SPEAKER_05 4:55

I don't remember. Probably by the time I could remember it, I was doing it independently. That would make sense.

SPEAKER_02 5:01

You were lying, saying you were doing it?

SPEAKER_05 5:03

Probably. I mean no, we had we did we definitely had like a post-school routine just because my parents' jobs were so structured schedule-wise.

Memory Gaps And Childhood Routines

SPEAKER_05 5:12

My dad left really early, but he was always back at like 5 30. He was working 7 to 5, and then my mom was a teacher, so she got out a little earlier, but we would usually be home before her because her school was further away. I was a minor latchkey kid.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

Did you go to after school program in elementary school?

SPEAKER_05 5:31

A little bit, but a lot of times I was just riding the bus home.

SPEAKER_02 5:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 5:34

Because otherwise somebody would have to come get me. And it was like the wrong way. Like you'd have to go past my house together.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

You ride the bus home and just be home by yourself?

SPEAKER_05 5:42

Yeah. Yeah, for 30 minutes, an hour, something like that, usually.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

How old were you? Like what about when you were 6'7?

SPEAKER_05 5:48

6'7?

unknown 5:49

No. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Six years old, seven years old.

SPEAKER_05 5:54

I know my first day riding the bus, I fell asleep on the bus. And I missed my stop. One of my first days, I fell asleep, and I got to the end of the route, and the bus driver was like, uh-oh, this kid's here. And they had to call, and like I hadn't gotten off the stop at home, and people were all worried about me, obviously. But yeah, yeah. That's forgot about that.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_05 6:15

Yeah. One of my first days on the bus. Didn't do that again.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

Was that in Missouri?

SPEAKER_05 6:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

So that was what first, second grade?

SPEAKER_05 6:23

Yeah. We were super close to my school in Bismarck. I don't really remember it because we lived in North Dakota. I did kindergarten in North Dakota and then we were in Missouri the rest of my life until now.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

Huh. I've been thinking about this a lot with kindergarten impending.

SPEAKER_05 6:38

You think other people remember their what when do you think most people have memories really starting?

SPEAKER_02 6:43

Three, four.

SPEAKER_05 6:44

Three or four?

SPEAKER_02 6:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:45

Okay. I feel like three or four though, it's just bits and bytes. Like the real highlights.

SPEAKER_02 6:51

Yeah, but I feel like into elementary school, like kindergarten on, people have some real stuff.

SPEAKER_05 6:56

I was gonna say like six or seven is when you really have more of a regular you remember more routine type stuff for me personally. Any elementary until like 20.

Falling Asleep On The Bus

SPEAKER_02 7:10

I and I don't remember 20 really either. I can tell you one college professor.

SPEAKER_05 7:14

That's really bad.

SPEAKER_02 7:16

Only one.

SPEAKER_05 7:17

Can you picture them?

SPEAKER_02 7:18

No.

SPEAKER_05 7:18

You can't like remember the classes you were in.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

I can remember the classrooms, like the the where they were and like the ish layout of the classroom. Interesting of some of them.

SPEAKER_05 7:27

I'm really bad with names, and so it would take me a minute to recall like all my teachers' names, but I can remember a lot of classrooms, a lot of teachers.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

I don't even know if I can confidently tell you if teachers were men or women.

SPEAKER_05 7:38

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

In some of the classes, I can like I can think of some that I can, but then I think about how many classes it takes to graduate with a teaching degree, and I'm like, I don't remember that many.

SPEAKER_05 7:50

Yeah, my problem is always recall. So if I sit down and I go freshman year, these are kind of the classes I took. Oh, I have I bet I could punch through 60 to 70 years.

SPEAKER_02 7:59

I know B Law was freshman year.

SPEAKER_05 8:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

I don't remember if my uh calculus teacher was a man or a woman.

SPEAKER_05 8:08

Yeah. Because I could remember, I would have to go kind of step by step. I'd be like, freshman year, these are the classes I took.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

No, no chance. No shock.

SPEAKER_05 8:15

Like, what classes would I have needed to take at that time? Where would those have been? Who have they been with? What build like I could build on it. They're not gonna be top of mind. I can't just pull it up out of nowhere, but I have that problem with everything.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Nope. I'm trying and I have nothing.

SPEAKER_05 8:32

You can't just remember like freshman year. These are kind of the classes I had to take.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

I was in French.

SPEAKER_05 8:37

I remember that. I remember you being in French.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

That kicked my ass.

SPEAKER_05 8:41

You were crying a lot. It was so hard.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

It was so hard.

SPEAKER_05 8:45

And you took so much French. I know.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

And you were should have started in advanced one instead of intermediate two. Yeah. Intermediate two, like, was to weedy out people for advanced. I probably would have had a hard time advanced one too. Languages are just really hard for me. I mean, I was in French for eight years prior to college. Yeah. And no, seven years prior to college. And I I've got nothing.

SPEAKER_05 9:08

Interesting. No, I feel like you would have been fine in an upper level French class, but that one wasn't, weren't you doing like literature and stuff?

SPEAKER_02 9:17

Yeah, and it was really deep into grammar. And I don't even do well with grammar in English.

SPEAKER_05 9:23

No, you're not a great English speaker. And so trying to.

SPEAKER_02 9:25

I'm just not good at languages. I'm not. One of my best friends growing up, she's fluent in Arabic, Swahili, Spanish, English, and she was fluent in Spanish and English, and that was it, I guess, in elementary, like into high school and stuff. Um, and not because her like it wasn't spoken in her home, like that was a priority, like a priority of her parents. And she just always has picked up on languages so quickly. It is something that really she can do. Yeah. I I'm terrible. I I wish I would have been put in Spanish though. Like I wish my parents would have. I took French because that same friend, her older sister was in French, and I thought her older sister was so cool growing up. So I did French instead of Spanish, and that was such a miss for me because French is not that useful. And I think I probably would have kept more Spanish.

SPEAKER_05 10:14

Yeah, we would have more occasion to use Spanish. Spanish is a lot more applicable in the United States. You can argue, you know, Canada, you can use French, but the overlap of what you would use here, you're almost never gonna run into someone speaking solely French here.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

Right.

SPEAKER_05 10:30

And you're not gonna get to exercise it that much.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

Yeah. Anyway, we've gotten so off.

SPEAKER_05 10:34

Oh, I was still gonna go on languages.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 10:36

I was gonna say, now this is not advice to anybody, but they said you needed two years of foreign language to go to college. Was it two years?

SPEAKER_00 10:45

I have no idea.

SPEAKER_05 10:45

Or at least two credits.

SPEAKER_00 10:47

I have no idea what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_05 10:48

I don't know. Lots of people said there was a foreign language requirement to get into college or a lot of maybe it was more. Really? No, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

That must be some Nix stuff.

SPEAKER_05 11:00

No, one or two schools did have like I had to fill out what my foreign languages were.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

And you just put Spanish.

SPEAKER_05 11:07

Well, no, I didn't have the actual credits to like back it up. I didn't finish one of those applications. No, I didn't say fluent. I just was like, I'm not gonna finish. It was a school I didn't want to go to anyway.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

What school was it?

SPEAKER_05 11:18

Uh it was S T, Missouri ST.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 11:22

Yeah, it's a science and technology school. And I did multiple visits there, and it's a really good engineering science technical school. Yeah, but I did visits there and I was like, I I don't want to live in Rawlett. I don't want to live in this town. It's a tiny town. The male to female ratio, not that that was like a huge priority for me. I've I've always been scared of women. It was like five to one or something, four to one. Which outside of the you know, the breakdown of men to women, I was like, that's just a weird ratio. That's too many dudes.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:59

It's not about wanting to have more women. I'm just like, I don't think we need that many

College Recall And Language Regrets

SPEAKER_05 12:04

dudes in one place.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

I think matriarchy needs to make a comeback.

SPEAKER_05 12:07

Did it ever a moment?

SPEAKER_02 12:08

No.

SPEAKER_05 12:08

I was gonna say I feel like it would be kind of a new thing. I feel like tiny isolated things have had matriarchies, and generally we're like patriarchy is it just crazy. We keep screwing stuff.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

I listened to content this week that somebody gave an entire speech listing all of the stats about women in the United States, except for flipped it and said men for all of it, and it really highlighted how bananas it is the reality that we accept.

SPEAKER_05 12:39

Like what?

SPEAKER_02 12:40

Like she started and said, Well, you know, I really feel like we need more men in leadership, and everybody said, Absolutely not. There are plenty of men in leadership. Hello? And she's like, Yeah, of course. I mean, now all the presidents have been women, and all of the like it started like listing all of the things, just an inverse, you know, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_05 13:09

I was curious what the stats were specifically. So yeah, I don't remember no, not numbers, numbers, just like you hadn't said what type of stats.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

Everything she talked about um leadership, she talked about pay, she talked about um reproductive rights, she talked about um sexual assault and like murder, like yeah, like um talked about like, well, women are committing 95% of the violent and sex crimes or whatever. That's not the right number. But and like as you're listening, you're like, oh my gosh, women wouldn't be oh, I remember what started it. It started by her saying, Do we realize how wild it would be if people were openly discussed whether openly discussing whether men should have the right to vote or not? Oh shit. That's what it started with. She's like, Can you imagine right now? We're like, I don't know, I just think it should be household. I don't think that men should have the right to a vote. And she went on then and talked about and very eloquently, not in the way that I've done it right now, talked about all of that. And I know that it's crazy, but then you listen to that in that regard, and you're like, gosh. It's wild, it's so blatant.

SPEAKER_05 14:28

Yeah, I I don't have any argument for it. Becoming a stay-at-home dad highlighted the parenting expectation disparity, and that's just a tiny piece of that. When you go broad men and women, it's everything.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:42

Especially when you get into crime. The crime ones are always like, What? What are we doing?

SPEAKER_02 14:46

It's nuts. Yeah, it is baffling. I I I don't know. I it's I don't understand how it works the way it does. And then it got into then you're talking about like the mental health crisis and men and this and that, and it's just like who's setting up the system? Yeah, it just goes back to that every single time because who's in power, who's setting up the system, who's making the rules and laws, and it's like it's negatively impacting everyone, everyone, men, women, children, everybody.

SPEAKER_05 15:16

And so many of us just try and reinforce a cycle that makes it worse.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 15:20

But we've that's what we've learned.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

Uh

Gender Power When You Flip It

SPEAKER_02 15:24

okay. Well, now that we've touched on that, what are you drinking today?

SPEAKER_05 15:27

Uh, I had a Diet Coke, but I drank it while I was setting up.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

So well, I have uh Red Bull Monk Fruit. Red Bull Zero.

SPEAKER_05 15:37

Red Bull Zero.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

You've been calling it a monk fruit Red Bull.

SPEAKER_05 15:40

Yeah, it's because I can't remember. I forgot it's zero, so it's it's sugar free, but it's not the same as sugar-free Red Bull. Sweetened with monk fruit is what it is.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

I like it.

SPEAKER_05 15:50

Yeah, they're good.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

It matches my outfit.

SPEAKER_05 15:53

It really does. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

Very aesthetic. Pretty cute. I'm gonna take a picture.

SPEAKER_05 15:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

You keep talking.

SPEAKER_05 15:59

Okay, I'll now I'm so distracted though. And we've I feel like we wrapped up. You were talking about the college classes that weeded you out and how you shouldn't have taken French. Mine was calc two. I took AP calculus, and everybody said, if you're gonna take AP calculus, just take calculus again, or take BC calculus and test out of calc one and two. Don't start in calc two. I started in calc two as a disaster, barely past that class. Also, almost failed chemistry.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

I only did survey of calculus. Yeah, and I got a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_05 16:31

I had a girl.

SPEAKER_02 16:32

I'm really good at math.

SPEAKER_05 16:34

Yeah. You'd also not that survey of calcul was like yeah, I mean, it's not wildly difficult. It was almost all review for you, too. It's not like you weren't taking higher level math.

SPEAKER_02 16:43

But I'm also like that's oh totally a weird strength of mine.

SPEAKER_05 16:47

It is for someone that really doesn't have any interest in science or math. You are pretty good at math.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

I liked math.

SPEAKER_05 16:54

Really?

SPEAKER_02 16:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:55

What about it?

SPEAKER_02 16:56

It just was a right answer. Like you learned the rules and you did it, and it and the rules made sense to me. It was something that like with French, it felt like I was learning a whole new topic and all of these little intricacies of like rules and things. Whereas with numbers, it was like, oh yeah, okay, that makes sense. Like that's how it occur occurs in the world. That's how got it.

SPEAKER_05 17:19

Yeah, very blind. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 17:20

Like it felt applicable.

SPEAKER_05 17:22

Yeah, that doesn't help your neurodiversity argument, but I hear you.

SPEAKER_02 17:25

Okay. I I don't have an argument, by the way.

SPEAKER_05 17:28

I'm just lots of people you get questions a lot. You're like, are you neurotypical or neurodiverse? And you're not sure.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

I'm sure that I fall on the scale of neurodivergence. It's a spectrum.

SPEAKER_05 17:38

Other things.

SPEAKER_02 17:40

I don't know. I think I'm smart.

SPEAKER_05 17:41

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

I think I have social problems.

SPEAKER_05 17:46

Again, but that's all I think you're a neurotypical person that's been conditioned in a neurodiverse environment.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:52

Between school and home.

SPEAKER_02 17:53

Well, I don't think when I was younger, I felt confident saying I liked math though.

SPEAKER_05 17:57

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

Like I didn't feel that way then because I wasn't confident that I was good at it. You were surrounded by a lot of people that were I got told I wasn't good at a lot of stuff, and I was very happy to believe the people around me.

SPEAKER_05 18:10

You have always been good at like, okay, well, I guess that's the situation I'm in.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:15

Very trusting person.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Well, and it doesn't hurt tend to hurt my feelings.

SPEAKER_05 18:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Which I think is kind of been a miss for me in life. I think it would have been good to be like, oh wow, I'm really hurt that somebody told me I'm not good at math. And then going to my mom, maybe and being like, they told me I'm not good at math. And then my mom could have been like, Well, yeah, you know, but I didn't. I was just like, oh, okay, I'm not good at math.

SPEAKER_05 18:38

I heard today I'm not good at math.

SPEAKER_02 18:39

And you were like, great, noted. You know, I I didn't, I don't know why I was that way.

SPEAKER_05 18:44

Yeah. It's like being told you can't sing or your art is bad, or yeah. You know, you just were like, got it. Huh. I guess that's what it is.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

I never really got to proceed creatively when I probably would have liked to do that.

SPEAKER_05 18:57

Interesting interesting.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

What?

SPEAKER_05 18:59

I feel like you've just pushed into creative fields, but you still lean towards the structure and business side of things, and less the creativity.

SPEAKER_02 19:07

I think people think of me as creative.

SPEAKER_05 19:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

And it's not how I view myself.

SPEAKER_05 19:13

I think uh beyond people thinking of you as creative, you've done photography, you've done social media. These are inherently creative fields. You have to generate content and art out of nothing. Like from the world. Generative?

unknown 19:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:30

Got it. What? Elaborate?

SPEAKER_02 19:32

I'm good at generating things. I don't think that I'm like, I'm not. I'm not a I'm an imitator. Not an innovator.

SPEAKER_05 19:42

Well, imitators are who are most successful, so that's good.

SPEAKER_02 19:45

Okay. I I just I think the cool thing to be is an innovator.

SPEAKER_05 19:51

That is the cool thing to be. If you want to talk about who's the most successful, it's the people who imitate the originators.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:57

And do it for, you know, cheaper, faster, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 20:01

Oh, I understand how the system works.

SPEAKER_05 20:03

Totally.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

Anyway.

SPEAKER_05 20:05

What are we talking about today?

SPEAKER_02 20:07

You're really creative.

SPEAKER_05 20:08

I've worked diligently to stifle my creativity.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

You have. But you're you're undoing that this year.

SPEAKER_05 20:14

I am. I've gotten a lot better. I was so stability seeking that it really conflicted with my creativity. Loved being creative. And then it's the closer I got to being an adult and realizing I was gonna have to take care of myself and that stability was something that was hyper important to me. And I just wanted to make things as smooth and painless as possible. I was like, okay, here's a career I can go into that I know I'll make enough money that I can be comfortable right off the bat. I'm good at math and science, not passionate deeply about math and science, but like I enjoy solving problems. I enjoy being competent, and those were things I could be competent in. They were very black and white, which aligned with, you know, kind of my neurodiverse way of thinking. Even if I liked being creative and had a lot of creativity, I enjoyed expressing the path of least resistance was engineering. Yeah, it was STEM, stable nine to five. Don't worry about the creativity part. Yeah. You can be just a teensy bit creative in how you solve rigid problems with desired outcomes.

SPEAKER_03 21:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:18

And then you don't have to risk anything or feel scared at all. And that's how I ended up uh here. And now I'm trying to undo a lot of that because especially if I want to continue making content and things, and I want to speak to people and have something of value to say, I will have to be more in touch with the creative side. And I think there's a lot of good things to say there.

SPEAKER_03 21:41

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 21:41

I can also teach you how to be very uh stable, but it involves routine and not uh ever deviating from your path. And then when you do, it's chaos and you dissolve as a person, which uh like I said, been there, done that.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

Returning to uh you know, line here with the Podcast today.

Creativity Vs Stability And Self-Trust

SPEAKER_02 22:01

Can I move us into Chronically Online?

SPEAKER_05 22:03

Absolutely. Please do.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

I want to talk about uh Holland.

SPEAKER_05 22:08

Oh, Brad Erling Holland.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 22:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

He is having the most viral moment online, which I know that he is a mega star.

SPEAKER_05 22:17

Very well known and very like, I'm not saying we've discovered Norwegian international football star, soccer star for the the US uh non-football people.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

Yeah. He's obviously massive.

SPEAKER_05 22:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:34

And through the World Cup, it's like this whole new group of, especially people in the US, are discovering him. Yes. And the content and the memes and the things happening are incredible.

SPEAKER_05 22:49

He has a bit of I understand his appeal to Americans. He's just like this absolute outlier unit of a person that is just doing stuff his own way, which I think speaks to at least what Americans think they are a lot of times. And he's 25. He's basically a child and has been an absolute monster his entire he's yeah, he's so fun to watch and is so entertaining as a person outside.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

Well, and he's just very confident and secure in who he is, it seems. And like he's playing into like he's posting stuff on his social media playing into what everybody's doing. Like it's like a fun game.

SPEAKER_05 23:29

A golden retriever and the Hulk mixed together.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

Kind of.

SPEAKER_05 23:32

Yeah. A gentle Hulk. I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:35

Shrek Golden Retriever.

SPEAKER_02 23:37

Well, there's just been so much content surrounding him, too. Like somebody broke down his entire Hermes collection. Yes. He has like a half a million dollar Airmez collection. That's probably low, but yeah. Crazy.

SPEAKER_05 23:50

He probably has a half a million dollar Hermes bag.

SPEAKER_02 23:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:52

Like individually.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

Yeah. Well.

SPEAKER_05 23:54

Yeah, that's that's the beauty of being an international uh football star. You get paid a lot at the top, top tier. Because he, I think it was his maybe it was his first year in the Premier League, just shattered the goal scoring record for a season. And he's doing it on again, all the stats are crazy outliers. He's doing it on like almost no touches per game. Lots of the top scorers have to touch the ball a lot. They need to be really involved. And they're just like booted up to this absolute unit of a human being, and he'll score a goal.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

And him and his buddy that he plays with play against each other in the next game. Like his I that's been a huge thing that I've seen through the content online too. No idea. Which team? I don't watch soccer at all. Like, I don't know anything about it. I've been trying to watch with Matt through the and you like like we'll have it on sometimes. I have no idea what's going on.

SPEAKER_05 24:49

Yeah, I I mean for many years I played FIFA, so that helps you kind of keep track of where players are. It's not a great measure.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

You also played soccer girl.

SPEAKER_05 24:57

I played soccer. I like watching soccer. FIFA helps keep you abreast of like where players are and kind of ballpark who's good and who's not. It's not super accurate and it's not, it doesn't the nuances of the game aren't captured. You get pigeonholed into like this player's really good on the game, they must be really good in real life, and that's hit or miss. But generally, broadly speaking, it keeps you up to date on who is where and how things are going. And then yeah, I just have an interest independently of that. But that's where I also haven't watched enough of like an international like of individual leagues to have teams and that kind of thing. But I do know a lot of the big hitters, and Holland is one that's always been fun.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

Like well, him and his buddy are playing against each other in the next game.

SPEAKER_05 25:43

Oh, in the next game. So that would be Norway and shoot. Where are they playing? England. Norway, England. That'll be a great game. Oh, it's Jude Bellingham, who is another super famous international superstar player, footballer. Yes. He's and he's English, so then all the very passionate England fans are. Okay. Like Dortmund, they played together.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

Okay. Well, there were tons of video clips of them playing with each other, and it was very clear they are like very close.

SPEAKER_05 26:23

They are also two of the top ten players in the world.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

They're I don't know anything. Unbelievable. I've just seen the heartwarming uh compilations of them hugging and messing with each other on the field.

SPEAKER_05 26:35

I haven't seen that, but that's so cute and hilarious that they are unbelievable generational talents.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

Yeah, and they're buddies.

SPEAKER_05 26:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

Which makes that makes sense to me how generational talents become buddies because who else do you relate to?

SPEAKER_05 26:49

They do and they don't, because I feel like in previous generations they opposed each other. Like they built these rivalries.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

Like Ronaldo and Ronaldo and Messi.

SPEAKER_05 26:58

Like I feel like they're very competitive legacy-wise. No, I don't think they're buddies.

SPEAKER_02 27:03

I think it's always better to be buddies.

SPEAKER_05 27:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:05

But I think also some of that depends on because you both are gonna have a legacy, you both kick ass. And if you then are buddies, then it intertwines, and why not go positive?

SPEAKER_05 27:16

Like, I don't think Michael Jordan had a lot of buddies. No, didn't he didn't, but like he was mainly just trying to take people's heads off and was that kind of psycho, which is really how you get to that top, top, top tier is you have to be a bit of a psycho. You just have to be so singularly focused, you have to hate to lose all of that stuff. But these guys are just um, I guess, gentle.

SPEAKER_02 27:38

They look like they're just having the time of their own. I'm sure they're extremely competitive. Yes, but that's so funny that that I'm seeing that, that I'm like, oh, look at these cute little I didn't know.

SPEAKER_05 27:50

Yeah, I didn't know they were friends. That's so funny. I love that. It would be nice if you were that big of a star to have somebody that could relate over being an absolute unit world, not unit, like not even you, just like being that famous and that crazy. It's not like Erling Holland is ever gonna blend in anywhere. No, you're never gonna be like, hmm, that guy just belongs to you.

SPEAKER_02 28:15

Yes, even if he was a regular old dude, you'd if you saw him once, you'd know you saw him again.

SPEAKER_05 28:23

You'd never be like, I've maybe I've seen him.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

Is he really tall?

SPEAKER_05 28:26

Yeah, he's like six, four or five, I think. Okay, which especially in football is a few years.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

It's always hard for me to tell when people are on screens.

SPEAKER_05 28:34

Because they're I feel like in football, five ten-ish is pretty average. And you end up with a lot of like really agile, smaller guys. Yeah, well, then the ones that are six, two, three, four.

SPEAKER_02 28:44

From everything I've been watching, I have been chronically on US um the World Cup in the US like uh content, and I have learned a ton about him. Uh, because that's what they say is so crazy, is he's so big, but he's really fast, I guess.

SPEAKER_05 29:01

He's very fast. He's I mean, for his size, agile, yeah, and very clinical.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

So how fun.

SPEAKER_05 29:08

It is fun. Love him.

Chronically Online With Erling Haaland

SPEAKER_02 29:10

Do you have a bad dad mean mom?

SPEAKER_05 29:12

We had a bit of a bad dad this morning. Oh, yeah. I thought I was really crushing it, and that I had everybody ready way ahead of when I normally do. It's because I they woke up really early, and so we just started our whole routine about 45 minutes ahead of time, which wasn't fun for somebody that had not slept enough. But then we got to super early, had everybody ready to rock. Turns out it was water day, hadn't prepped at all for water day. So as we're about to go out the door, now I'm scrambling to get out of the way.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

You were still on time though.

SPEAKER_05 29:39

On time, but we were we were on track to be early with 30 minutes of chill time and early, and then we ended up exactly where we normally are.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

Yeah, that happens to you a lot.

SPEAKER_05 29:50

It does.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

Actually, it was just noted to me by uh our babysitter that when I wasn't there, you were talking smack. Not really, it was not worded that way at all.

SPEAKER_05 30:02

Okay, I'm gonna go fight our babysitter.

SPEAKER_02 30:05

It was noted that you were talking about how I leave so early for my appointments. Like my appointment will be at one and I leave at 12 15.

SPEAKER_05 30:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 30:13

And that you think that's uh so wild, and not that you were being rude or anything about it, you were just like acknowledging it.

SPEAKER_05 30:21

That's she wasn't actually, but oh, I have talked, I was like, we are opposite sides of the spectrum.

SPEAKER_02 30:27

Well, she was laughing as you were talking about it because she said to me, She's like, he's always so stressed out, like he's making fun of you for going early, and he's like, and he's always so stressed about being so like the I yeah, yes. She's like, it didn't really make any sense.

SPEAKER_05 30:46

Shocking, yeah. It's the ADHD at work, you need the stress to move, but then the stress also is killing you. Yeah, it's not a great lifestyle.

SPEAKER_02 30:57

I'm always early, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:58

You like you you love a leisurely pace and you are able to manage that, especially if it's appointments and that kind of thing. You're not always early, early when it comes to like a soft, like show up between two and three. Oh no, especially now that we have three kids, we're like uh it got it got close to three.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

That's different though. Totally. That's different. I mean, that's a different vibe.

SPEAKER_05 31:21

I feel like I'm very punctual if it's something that needs strict appointments, you are I will be 10 minutes early. Or stressed if you're even cutting it close.

SPEAKER_02 31:30

If I'm cutting it close to like 10 minutes early, I'm ticked off.

SPEAKER_05 31:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

Whereas some people, if they get there within the first 10 minutes, and that's where we shared one car for a really long time. And the thing that just set me off on a regular basis is I would have an appointment and Matt be like, oh, no problem, I'll be back in time for that. Like my appointment would be at one, and it was a 10-minute drive. And Matt would come screeching into our driveway at 1251 and be like, No, you have plenty of time, you're good. And I'm like, I'm gonna be.

SPEAKER_05 31:59

I'm gonna back in into the driveway and keep the engine running. If you just run in, you're gonna be A-Okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:04

That's what you would do. And it made me so mad because I was looking to leave at you know, 12 30 at the latest, and you're like, oh, 1251. It's only a 10-minute drive. You're gonna get there at 101. I'm like, that's late. Yeah, that is late.

SPEAKER_05 32:20

It's like it's a 10-minute drive, you have 10 minutes to go. I was so assuming you meet me out at the driveway, end of the driveway.

SPEAKER_02 32:26

I was so happy when we finally had another car because I was absolutely that did not vibe for me.

SPEAKER_05 32:33

Oh, I have a bunch of maintenance to do on our cars. I do like doing the maintenance on our cars, but your to-do list is my to-do list, I it's bad. I don't like what a dumb time to start making content again.

SPEAKER_02 32:46

You can make content about everything on your to-do list, though.

SPEAKER_05 32:50

Some of it, some of it's not that engaging, I feel like, but I don't think that's true. Okay, okay. I'll I have to reframe. I'll I'll think about it.

SPEAKER_02 32:58

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:59

Some of it is that I don't always feel I have a hard time doing me doing stuff. Doing me doing stuff. I have a hard time filming and posting me doing stuff if I feel like I'm not an expert.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

That's the whole bit. Yeah, like that's your whole thing, is that you're not.

SPEAKER_05 33:17

I understand I'm not, but I also don't want to teach people something that's not right.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

I don't think you're teaching people anything. That's wrong.

SPEAKER_05 33:22

But I'm worried people are learning things from it. No, like I'm okay with it if I do it as a like, I'm gonna figure it out and it's not perfect, but I feel like I have to lean really heavy into that, otherwise, people start to take it as like a tutorial.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

No, I don't think anybody's watched your content ever and thought, ah, this is a tutorial. Like, you know, I okay.

SPEAKER_05 33:43

She's referring to me once electrocuting myself. Uh, I don't think that's the right word. I think electrocuting means you had to die shocking myself. Like, I think electrocuting as a word technically means that you've been killed by electricity.

SPEAKER_02 33:55

Okay, I didn't know.

SPEAKER_05 33:57

By the way, it's not word of the week, but it's a fun fact.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

Yeah, I don't think anybody's I you need to take that unnecessary pressure off your plate.

SPEAKER_05 34:06

That's valid.

SPEAKER_02 34:07

It's not like you're coming from the standpoint of like, I believe that anybody can do anything. And so I'm gonna show you how I, somebody with no experience, am doing all of this. Like that's not your bit.

SPEAKER_05 34:17

Yeah, okay. That's that's fair. I just get worried. I get worried that people are gonna you think about your impact on other people?

SPEAKER_02 34:24

Weird.

SPEAKER_05 34:25

I mean, not as good. I'm saying that's good. Both not as much as I should and too much.

SPEAKER_02 34:30

I think that's that's only if it helps uh it is a completely valid thought process.

SPEAKER_05 34:35

Sure, sure. I just feel like I'm not using it correctly, but only as an excuse, I guess.

Punctuality Stress And ADHD Momentum

SPEAKER_02 34:40

Word of the week?

SPEAKER_05 34:41

Okay, let's get you a word of the week.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

Word of the week. Chow, chow. Word of the week.

SPEAKER_05 34:46

We'll go to the other option from the last time. Biblioclept.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

Biblioclept.

SPEAKER_05 34:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 34:52

Okay, library, books. Uh stealing books? Yeah. Someone that steals books. Someone who steals books. Is it?

SPEAKER_05 35:00

Yeah. You got it. Look at that.

SPEAKER_01 35:03

Oh.

SPEAKER_05 35:04

Who knew?

SPEAKER_01 35:05

See?

SPEAKER_05 35:06

I you you didn't you learn Latin now that I'm saying this?

SPEAKER_02 35:10

Yeah. You took Latin. I I took Latin for a year.

SPEAKER_05 35:14

Yeah. Um like I'm not good at science terms, but library and klepto really Yeah, those aren't exactly the the most difficult.

SPEAKER_02 35:24

Bibliothek.

SPEAKER_05 35:26

Bibliotech is is library, right? Biblioteca in Spanish.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 35:31

Donde está la biblioteca. Okay. Where is the library?

unknown 35:35

I think.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

I thought it was just bibliotech.

SPEAKER_05 35:37

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_02 35:38

I'm probably wrong. I'm not saying it. I just anyway. What's the word again?

SPEAKER_05 35:43

Biblioclept.

SPEAKER_02 35:45

Biblioclept.

SPEAKER_05 35:46

You think you can spell it?

SPEAKER_02 35:47

V-I V L I O K L E P T.

SPEAKER_05 35:54

There you go. Biblioclept.

SPEAKER_02 35:56

Biblioclept.

SPEAKER_05 35:57

A fun, slightly dramatic word.

SPEAKER_02 35:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:59

And that says for a common habit. I don't know that stealing books is a common habit. That's a crazy thing to say. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:05

Who be stealing books?

SPEAKER_05 36:07

That feels like a Google hallucination.

SPEAKER_02 36:09

Uh what about like LimeWire?

SPEAKER_05 36:13

Limewire.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

Like biblioclep.

SPEAKER_05 36:15

To be fair, I was a biblioclept in uh college. I was getting all kinds of PDFs of my textbooks.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

That you should know.

SPEAKER_05 36:22

Putting them on my iPad. Yeah, from sketchy websites and I'm not for that.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

I I don't even like hearing that. It makes me question your moral code.

SPEAKER_05 36:33

I question the moral code of releasing textbooks that are like $300 that have no improved information from the previous iteration that's available for like $40.

SPEAKER_01 36:43

Fair enough.

SPEAKER_05 36:44

Also, they're heavy. So when I could put them all on my iPad, that was kind of sick. Cool. And I was also just trying to save, I don't know, $500 a semester.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

That's fair. Back to the case.

SPEAKER_05 36:54

I felt like a Robin Hood justified sense. It complied with my more.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

You were a vigilante.

SPEAKER_05 37:03

Yeah. It wasn't um perfect. Yeah, I didn't buy that many books in college.

SPEAKER_02 37:07

We've talked about college a lot today.

SPEAKER_05 37:08

We have. It's been a college focus, which is weird. We never talk about college, but only on the podcast, I guess.

Biblioclept And Textbook Justifications

SPEAKER_05 37:14

Was a biblioclip. I will say on a Spotify comment, somebody did say latch hooking is the craft with a special tool and yard hooking.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

Latch hooking.

SPEAKER_05 37:22

Yeah, latch hooking.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 37:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:25

That sounds familiar, but I don't remember it.

SPEAKER_05 37:27

That's what I were trying to say. I did some latch hooking.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

I I don't remember. Did you make like rugs doing that?

SPEAKER_05 37:34

Kind of like rugs. Yeah. I think you had to have like a grid. I remember okay.

SPEAKER_02 37:37

I do remember that.

SPEAKER_05 37:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

I remember doing that.

SPEAKER_05 37:40

I I don't know if it was more like a craft that you gave kids or if it was a skill that got applied.

SPEAKER_02 37:45

Well, I think it's a skill that was applied, but I think it was broken down into a viral sensation of a craft for kids in the 90s.

SPEAKER_05 37:52

It's like an easy bake oven kind of deal.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

More like shrinky dinks.

SPEAKER_05 37:56

Aren't those the same thing? What's the difference in an easy bake oven and shrinky dinks?

SPEAKER_02 37:59

Uh a shrinky dink, as with latch hook, are like a kit that then they can continually do something with. Whereas the easy bake oven, you had to buy the easy bake oven and then you had to buy all the easy bake oven like accessories and all the easy bake oven. Like it was you had to with shrinky dinks, you just had to have the paper or the whatever, and then you could use crayola markers or crayons or whatever you had, and then it worked. Same with the latch hook, like you just needed the supplies, whereas I so maybe that's not that different, but when I think of an easy bake oven, it's an ecosystem.

SPEAKER_05 38:38

Yeah, it's the apple of shrinky dinks.

SPEAKER_02 38:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:42

A walled garden. That's hilarious. I don't know. Is that silly that I thought that differently? No.

SPEAKER_02 38:48

Okay. But yeah, I I remember doing that.

SPEAKER_05 38:55

I did not remember it was latch hook, and I don't really remember how it works, but I do you looped it and you poked it through and it had like a little thing, and then you pull out. Yeah, I do think you just like went over and under.

SPEAKER_02 39:08

Oh, you're thinking of loom.

SPEAKER_05 39:10

Um no, I'm thinking of latch hook. I'm gonna look it up. I'm gonna look it up. We're about to argue about this for two episodes in a row. And someone's gonna be like, damn it, I just told you what it was.

SPEAKER_02 39:20

I'm not trying to argue with you. I am just not You do basically make a rug. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:27

You're taking a string and you're putting it through and then pulling it through the loop and then it just sticks straight up.

SPEAKER_05 39:32

Just the raw end?

SPEAKER_02 39:34

Yeah. That sounds crazy. Look.

SPEAKER_05 39:36

I'm looking at them now.

SPEAKER_02 39:37

This is what I remember, but then what you were describing reminded me of.

SPEAKER_05 39:41

Yeah, you're right. Yeah, it's just oh, but you had to like tie it on the bottom and then it yeah, okay. Here's some here's like a picture of what the grid thing was like. You don't have to tie it, but it's like looped through and tucked up.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 39:55

To me, that's tying it, no? But you did have to start with the grid things when they were painted.

SPEAKER_02 40:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember I did it.

SPEAKER_05 40:02

You did it too?

SPEAKER_02 40:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:04

Okay. Got it, got it, got it.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

That's why I was comparing it to shrinky dinks.

SPEAKER_05 40:08

Makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 40:09

And then when you were talking, I started to think that maybe you because you said when you said weave, like you like weave it back.

SPEAKER_05 40:15

Yeah, I don't know the right terms for anything.

SPEAKER_02 40:16

This is when I started thinking that you were doing one of these.

SPEAKER_05 40:19

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:20

Which is those looms that yeah, like and it makes me think of a Jacob's ladder. That's not what a Jacob's ladder is.

SPEAKER_05 40:28

No, that was just one of the things. What was that with the strings in your fingers? What were people doing? I feel like you definitely did that a bunch. Um, there's no way you weren't deep into that.

SPEAKER_02 40:37

Uh string hand tricks. I have to look up what that's no, it is. It is Jacob's ladder.

SPEAKER_05 40:44

Well, I thought Jacob's ladder is one thing you made with it.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

Yeah. Um, Cat's Cradle. Oh man, I wonder if I can still do that. G would love that. I uh haven't even thought about doing that in a minute.

SPEAKER_05 40:56

I mean, it's a great kid's type.

SPEAKER_02 40:57

I think I could still do it. I think it's muscle memory a little bit. Yeah, Cat's Cradle is a game involving the creation of various string figures between the fingers, either individually or by passing a loop to of string back and forth.

SPEAKER_05 41:09

You can make content around that.

SPEAKER_02 41:10

Cat's cradle. Let's bring it back. No, I'm sure people do it.

SPEAKER_05 41:14

I'm sure they do.

SPEAKER_02 41:15

I've I loved that when I was a kid. Yeah. I'm about to I have yarn up at the house. When we get back up, we're you're gonna be cradling it.

SPEAKER_05 41:22

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 41:22

I want to see if I can still do it.

SPEAKER_05 41:24

I'm sure you can. Or like if you just muscle memory can do it.

SPEAKER_02 41:28

Yes, if I can I know that I can if I look it up and learn. No, I want to know if I can still do it.

SPEAKER_03 41:36

Got it. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 41:37

Anyway, okay, I have a text message.

Refusing To Manage Your Partner

SPEAKER_03 41:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 41:39

Hi, Matt and Joe. How do you keep yourself from managing your partner? Love the pod. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 41:46

Oh, managing Matt.

SPEAKER_02 41:49

How do you keep yourself from feeling like you have to manage me?

SPEAKER_05 41:53

Um, you know, it's a struggle every day for me to uh not manage you. That's sarcastic. I that is not something I struggle with. I struggle to manage myself. And with that individual issue, I'm like, I should not be managing anyone else. I probably could be managing more. Honestly, I think that would be a welcome change for someone to provide direction.

SPEAKER_02 42:18

This is something that I have been very adamant about from the time we were dating.

SPEAKER_05 42:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 42:24

Like this is a I I live on this point, which is funny that I ended up with ADHD final boss.

SPEAKER_05 42:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:32

But I will not manage Matt. No, I will not do it. And our lives fall into disarray sometimes because of that.

SPEAKER_05 42:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

And I don't care. I do care about our lives falling into disarray. Yes, but I will not be your manager.

SPEAKER_05 42:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:51

And I the thing is, then I have to deal with the frustration from you when things don't you're never frustrated with me, to be clear. But you'll be frustrated in general when something falls through the cracks or doesn't get done. And I do have to figure out how to acknowledge and work through that without taking it on as my responsibility. And that's hard for me because I want to take it on. Um, and I think that that honestly has helped a lot because as I've I've been completely hands off. Yes, it's taken some time, but I feel like you're much more aware of what nobody does it for you.

SPEAKER_05 43:27

Yeah, I I didn't realize how much I needed management until I left my job. And then when I had to try and work for myself, I realized I was very accustomed to being managed.

SPEAKER_02 43:39

Did you recognize how much of your household stuff was also being managed for you?

SPEAKER_05 43:44

It it forced me to confront it directly. Once I left my job, then it was more of a shared obligation too. Before I had somewhere that I left like it was always shared, but it was accentuated by me being home and not having a somewhere I left for. Eight to ten hours a day. Once I was there the whole time, it was like there's no reason that someone should be managing this for you. You could mentally dismiss it if you're like, oh, well, I wasn't home and you have a flexible schedule, and so you're able to go places and contact people on these way more convenient times that may or may not exist.

SPEAKER_02 44:18

Which is bullshit, by the way.

SPEAKER_05 44:20

Yes, it was not a good way of thinking, but that is it was an easy out. And then once I didn't have a nine to five, I was going to, it was definitely highlighted. Yeah, that's not probably something we struggle with necessarily, just because you've made it abundantly clear that you will not manage me. You will not be my mom and you will not manage me.

SPEAKER_02 44:39

I hate that like it bothers me that I've even had to say that though.

SPEAKER_05 44:42

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 44:43

Like I that is a a weak spot and something that I feel frustrated by because I think that that should be obvious and I think people should be independent and functional. And so even having to say those words, but it's so common.

SPEAKER_05 44:58

It's really common. I think that honestly, if you're looking for advice though, you may have to lay it out that bluntly and say, I will not manage you, I will not be your mom.

SPEAKER_02 45:08

Because when somebody says that to you, I wouldn't say I won't be your mom because I feel like that is a I will not mother you.

SPEAKER_05 45:14

Is that a better phrasing?

SPEAKER_02 45:15

Or just I don't leave out that entirely because I think there is something behind that that sounds very in my opinion. I'd be curious to your feedback, but to me it sounds like talking down to somebody.

SPEAKER_05 45:25

I think it's almost refusing to talk down to somebody. Like you're not gonna infantilize somebody, you know?

SPEAKER_02 45:31

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 45:32

Would be the flip side of it. But that's fair. Use your own words. Pick pick what you think sounds best.

SPEAKER_02 45:39

I guess it feels weaponized to me. It depends on their relationship with their family, I guess.

SPEAKER_05 45:44

Yeah, and I I think it tends to hit the nail on the head.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 45:48

Because when you say that to somebody, uh in my experience, it was like, oh yeah, no, you shouldn't. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. You said both of those things, and that puts them in a position to go, no, you should manage me or you should mother me, in which case you've got a totally different problem. But if you're dealing with someone that understands that you are partners and not on different hierarchical tiers, then that should maybe jog some things and go, Oh, yeah, I shouldn't have to be managed and I shouldn't have to be parented by my partner. We can support each other, but it's a partnership. And so I think those words pick your best options, but and being very direct about it can get a lot done in my personal experience. Valid question though.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:34

Just I don't know that we have perfect experience with it because you were way out ahead of that.

SPEAKER_02 46:39

I that's something I've always driven the point. And a lot of times when you are And you've proven it.

SPEAKER_05 46:45

There's there's been times where we've let things slip through the cracks because you're like, I'm not sure. Well, and I've watched it happen.

SPEAKER_02 46:50

I'm like, oh, that stinks. That's not but I won't say anything and I don't say anything because and that's really I'm sure the harder part.

SPEAKER_05 46:59

It's really hard is being willing to let things fall through the cracks.

SPEAKER_02 47:02

It's really hard. And I will say, while I have always said that that's how I wanted things to be, when we first moved in together, and maybe in the beginning of our marriage, when I saw things slipping through the cracks, I would I wouldn't say anything. I would just take care of it because I didn't want it to. And then what ended up happening is everything was on my plate at some point where you're like, oh well, Joe does it all.

SPEAKER_05 47:25

So yeah. And it wasn't a conscious decision. Yeah, it would just there was a safety net there. You weren't thinking about it. Yeah, there was a safety net there that allowed me to not think about it and go, uh, it'll it'll be fine.

SPEAKER_02 47:38

If you're listening to this and you're somebody that goes, it always works out. Figure out why you're really mindful of why does it always work out? Who does the work to make it work out? Because yes, I believe in that, that things will always work out in one way or another, but I also am very mindful of it works out because I do the work to work things out. It's it's like when we were in Florida and our car got stuck, and the whole family's in a full-blown not we were with extended family, and so everybody's like panicking, trying to figure out how to do. And I was like, it's gonna be fine. Everybody stop making plans. You're not executing it well because you're panicked. Yeah, I've already booked us flights, you know, and everybody's like, Oh, I didn't even think of flying. I'm like, Yeah, yeah, I I got that from our, but that's a good example to me of like, I wasn't worried about it because I believe in myself and my capacity to work it out and get it done. However, sometimes when I hear hat not recently, but have heard you say, well, everything works out, it rubs on me wrong because I'm like, why's that?

SPEAKER_05 48:52

It's fair. I've I've pushed that bridge pretty far. But there's a difference between it's gonna be okay, things work out as an attitude in terms of not getting spun out and trying to stay calm and keeping things in perspective, and then the attitude of, well, these things just take care of themselves. And I think I do both, but when I started to lean more on things just work out for themselves, that's where that concept had to get challenged.

SPEAKER_02 49:22

Yeah. Don't you feel like that kind of falls under all of this?

SPEAKER_05 49:25

Yeah, it's the executive function, which I don't have a strong executive function, but it's when you think executive function things just work out, that's when you have an issue. It's one thing to have the perspective of live in the moment, don't worry too much, don't stress about things you can't control. I think that's a perspective that I can be good at.

SPEAKER_02 49:45

I agree. You've really helped me in that.

SPEAKER_05 49:47

And then you can weaponize that further and go, everything works out if you just don't worry about it. And there are things you do need to worry about.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 49:56

And uh executive function has to happen.

SPEAKER_01 49:59

Yeah, agreed.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

So, well, on that note, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:02

Yeah, I guess it's time.

SPEAKER_02 50:04

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