The Supreme Court v. Tomatoes

We jump from caffeine to what it looks like to support each other without taking on each other’s panic. We also dig into parenting language, reality TV culture, and practical listener questions about personal growth and freelance money. 

Join us this week for:
• caffeine, sleep quality, and the ADHD-shaped urge to chase stimulants 
• how we handle stress differently in marriage and try not to enmesh 
• why we try to remove words like stupid from our home vocabulary 
• a parenting stance on exposure, context, and not using language at people 
• life updates, sewing projects, garden hornworms, and the fruit vs vegetable rabbit hole 
• Love Island follower growth, post-show content strategy, and “owning the edit” 
• discomfort with reality TV incentives, humiliation as entertainment, and money’s power 
• word of the week: susurrus, a whispering or rustling sound 
• advice on personal growth with a partner and the reality of little-kid seasons 
• freelance budgeting tips: plan to your floor, build a float account, use quarterly bonuses, consider a line of credit carefully 

If you've got a thought to share or are looking for a bit of advice on something, leave us a voicemail at the link below!

https://www.speakpipe.com/overthinkingpod

If you'd like to message us you can use the email below or the text link at the top overthinking@theoverbys.com

CONNECT:
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Instagram: @jojohnsonoverby / @matt.overby
Website:  https://jojohnsonoverby.com/

Transcript

Caffeine Talk And Low Energy

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Boo.

SPEAKER_04 0:07

Cut chow.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Cachow. Yeah. Sub McQueen?

SPEAKER_04 0:11

I'm tired. I gotta stop saying that. Okay, start over.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Start over. Cachao. Cut chow.

SPEAKER_04 0:20

What?

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Sub McQueen?

SPEAKER_04 0:21

What are you drinking?

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Uh, this is water with like an Alani packet because we're we didn't have energy drinks in the fridge that I saw.

SPEAKER_04 0:29

And we do.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

It looks like you do.

SPEAKER_04 0:31

Yeah, I had Chloe pick them up for us.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Oh, nice. Nobody told me.

SPEAKER_04 0:36

They're in the fridge.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

That's fine. This is still an energy drink. It just comes in a packet. And you also get a full cup of it.

SPEAKER_04 0:44

That's concerning.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

It's the same amount of caffeine. Why is it concerning? It's diluted out. If anything, I'm getting more hydrated.

SPEAKER_04 0:51

Maybe that's better for you then.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

It's way better for me.

SPEAKER_04 0:54

Between the carbonation, which is not ideal for your caffeine take, my gosh, your caffeine intake should have been the first red flag of or the first diagnostic flag, the first, I don't know, the first, like, hey guys, this guy probably has ADHD.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

This guy seems to be seeking stimulants anywhere he can get them.

SPEAKER_04 1:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Yeah. Um, especially since it really has very little effect on the tree.

SPEAKER_04 1:19

When are you going caffeine free?

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Ah, I've stopped even saying it out loud. I don't know. I'm not working out. I probably could do it now.

SPEAKER_04 1:26

Are you still wanting to do it?

SPEAKER_00 1:27

I think I should do it.

unknown 1:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

But part of me only wants to do it to see if caffeine hits again when I go back, which doesn't seem like the right spirit to be doing that.

SPEAKER_04 1:37

I mean, start however you can start, I guess. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:42

I wanted to give birth without an epidural just because I wanted to know what it was like.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:46

That's probably not in the spirit of isn't that kind of the only spirit of it though? Like in today's day and age, I feel like that's kind of a No, most people that want to do it want to do it because they want to go for health reasons. Yeah, or they're trying to be all natural. Whereas I was like, I just really want to know if it's as bad as everybody says.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Yeah. You just had to touch the stove.

SPEAKER_04 2:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

I get that. I get that a lot.

SPEAKER_04 2:10

I don't think it was as bad as everybody says. It was terrible, to be clear. I I think it's absolutely horrendous and extremely painful. But the fact that we've freaked people out so bad about it.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Yeah, we probably just shouldn't do that with lots of things.

SPEAKER_04 2:31

There are exceptions to this. However, the vast majority of births are without complication. And women go in absolutely petrified of the pain. First I was afraid, I was petrified. Yeah. And I think it's because we speak so negatively about it. I'm drinking a Red Bull Zero.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Try all of that again. That didn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_03 2:57

Just say I think it's because it makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Well, your point you yawned through.

SPEAKER_04 3:01

I don't really remember already. I yawned my brain recently. Yeah, I think it's how we talk about giving birth. This is a Red Bull Zero. What?

unknown 3:14

What?

SPEAKER_00 3:15

You're podcasting like you're on a deadline.

SPEAKER_04 3:17

I am on a deadline.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

I got an appointment at noon. Let's crack this thing out. No retakes. No edits.

SPEAKER_04 3:25

We have plenty of time.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

I I agree, but you're the one just blasting through.

SPEAKER_04 3:31

That's not why.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Okay. You're just too tired to do it.

SPEAKER_04 3:35

I'm I gotta stop saying it though, because it's the whole beginning of the podcast every single week. Every podcast is like Am I ever not gonna be tired again?

SPEAKER_00 3:43

I don't know. I feel like you're sleeping, but you know, doesn't seem to do anything.

SPEAKER_04 3:48

I don't think I'm sleeping well.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 3:52

The quality of my sleep has been lacking. For a while there, I was getting really quality sleep and feeling really good during the day.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:00

And the last month or so, that has just not been the case.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

Okay. Well, you've had things going on the last month, but Okay, well, I feel dumb now.

SPEAKER_04 4:09

You talk about what you want to talk about, buddy. Guide us.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

I feel okay. I didn't sleep nearly enough, but I feel fine.

SPEAKER_04 4:16

No, you did not.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

This is exactly when we recorded

Marriage Panic And Emotional Boundaries

SPEAKER_00 4:20

last week, which is also when I didn't sleep. If we record the day after the podcast releases, um I get I I've probably slept between four and five hours. Tops.

SPEAKER_04 4:31

And that's that's poor time management more than anything.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

That's not, I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:36

That's something that I've had to really come to terms with in being married to you because I want to feel bad for you when you're panicking or staying up late or you're in your sense of doom. And I feel like in the last year, I've really been adjusting my method and just going to bed or doing whatever I need to do. Yeah. Because I'm like, you know what? I can't take on his panic, even though he wants me to.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

I'm trying to do that with you. We're trying to let each other.

SPEAKER_04 5:06

What do you mean with me?

SPEAKER_00 5:08

It's not it's very different because I I tend to enmesh. Like, if you're going through it, I'm like, oh well, everybody's going through it. Like, I also need to not which is also what you want me to do when you're going through it. I don't really want you to do that.

SPEAKER_04 5:23

Really?

SPEAKER_00 5:24

No, because I'm hoping you'll pull me up, but um, and you usually do, like, you're way better about that. You're hoping I'll pull you up, and I tend to be like, oh, so we're down here now. We're all sad now. Okay, we're just all not gonna get something done because we're mentally going through it. Whereas my work is like, hey, maybe don't do that. Maybe just live a parallel life and try and keep going. Don't look for any exit ramp on the path to progress.

SPEAKER_04 5:50

Interesting.

unknown 5:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:52

Don't look for any exit ramp on the path to progress is inspirational.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

It's poetic and dumb.

SPEAKER_04 5:59

It's so you.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

I that's most of yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:02

Not that you're dumb.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

I'm not dumb.

SPEAKER_04 6:07

No.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

But many of the thought processes I go to kind of dumb. Well, logically pulled.

SPEAKER_04 6:12

I wanted to clarify that that's not what I was trying to say.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

It's okay.

SPEAKER_04 6:15

I would never say that.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

You would say that. You have said that.

SPEAKER_04 6:18

That you're dumb? Well, I don't think you really meant it, but uh yeah, I do actually often when you say something. Like, you're so stupid.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:28

That's a common like uh what would you describe that as?

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Reflex? No.

SPEAKER_04 6:34

No. Um, I say it, I've noticed it about myself though, and I've been like, I need to probably stop saying that because it doesn't bother me, but yeah. Well, it's it's like a little like you're so silly.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:48

You know, it's not, yeah, it's not meant as a judgment on your intelligence.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

And I don't think it is.

SPEAKER_04 6:55

I think it's probably something that would be good to remove from my arsenal though, because I do think that we have kids that watch us interact,

How We Talk Around Our Kids

SPEAKER_04 7:05

and even though that's not how I mean it, that doesn't mean they won't repeat it.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

And I don't think that's a very we're very much in the trying to get out in front of calling things weird, calling things dumb, trying not to use the word stupid at all with the five-year-old.

SPEAKER_04 7:23

We use the weird weird a lot.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

We we as in the five-year-old, or we as in we as in you and I got it, use it a lot. Yeah, I've tried to point it in we don't call people weird. Situations can be weird. Really, we shouldn't be able to do it. Yes, we shouldn't call people anything. It's like swearing.

SPEAKER_03 7:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

I've I've had that talk with our five. Not that she's swearing, she really doesn't use bad words, and she has an awareness of like what some of them are, and sometimes she'll ask me about them. And my stance is always we shouldn't use them at people. You're gonna hear them used because honestly, we use them more than we should, but I'm not letting it go either until it's proven to be a huge issue. I think it's better to be exposed to the language because it will happen at some point in your life. Yeah, you will enter the adult world.

SPEAKER_04 8:16

I always think it's good to be exposed to more than not. Yes, yeah, which is I think kind of a hot take in parenting.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Maybe, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:24

I don't just think it with language. I'm not saying that I want to take them to R-rated movies and I want them to be in the depths of like things that are out of their age range. And I also want them to experience things that are uncomfortable and things that are maybe things that I don't wish for them, so that I am there to talk with about it.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Well, it's better to have an awareness of things going on and understand that those things exist and also know that they are things that they can be brought to us or things that they have been primed about.

SPEAKER_04 9:02

Well, entering adulthood, I feel like that is one of the biggest hurdles I've had individually. Is I reached adulthood, I left for college, and I was so scared of going to college because I didn't know anything about the world other than it was something I needed to be protected from, and it was something that was scary.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:27

I didn't have a lot of experience navigating anything. And it still impacts me now. I'm in my mid-30s, and I still am hesitant and nervous to interact and to engage in things, and I push past it a lot now because I know that's the only way I'm gonna learn, but I really don't want to leave my kids in that place.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

Well, some degree I think you have to you'll start to push past it and you'll it takes an initial leap. And then when you have experiences where you go, oh, this was not what I thought it was, or I'm okay, even if things didn't go how I hoped or planned or thought, you build up on that experience.

SPEAKER_04 10:09

I also think it makes judgmental kids. Yes, people, not kids, like as a whole, because I think that if you are inherently protecting your kids from specific things out of fear of what those things will make them, you are passing judgment on all of the that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

You end up giving it more power. You build things up and you make them mysterious and dangerous, and eventually they'll find out whether or not that's true, but they'll also have a preconceived notion that it needs to be that way, and it just doesn't. And so sometimes they hear me say

Weekly Updates And Garden Battles

SPEAKER_00 10:50

shit.

SPEAKER_04 10:50

So yeah, what was your week like?

SPEAKER_00 10:53

My week. Man, what did we do? We did watch that England-Norway game, and the kids were like, Hey, can we not watch this? And we laid down the law.

SPEAKER_04 11:05

Get out of here.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

It was like you can go ahead and play with toys, but this game's gonna be on. It was a good game, really good game. But uh, Jude Bellingham beat our boy.

SPEAKER_03 11:15

Yeah, sad, sad day.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

It was sad. Uh second sewing project. Just I'd say I finished it. I finished one, I'm making one for each kid, and so I have one towel poncho made. What do you think of it? What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_04 11:29

I think it's the pocket's a little wonky.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

That's kind of I and I feel like it's straight, but I think it's how it sits on the kids. I think the shoulders are weird, no? The uh oh, the shape of it. Yeah, yes, the shape of it is bad.

SPEAKER_04 11:45

Yeah, yeah. So explain to me when I just said it's wonky, while you went straight to it's how our children wear it.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Because I was thinking of the straightness of it.

SPEAKER_04 11:57

It looks straight, just it's cut out really wonky. I was thinking like I don't even understand why you tried to put it on while it was such a strange shape.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Because I put it on before I really analyzed it. I was in a hurry. I was just trying to get it on there and done, and then I looked at the shape and I was like, well, that's not real good. I was having the thought today that I don't know if it's good or bad that I just throw unreasonable expectations at myself and then hope that some amount of them get done. It's probably bad. I'm saying it out loud, it sounds bad.

SPEAKER_04 12:30

But it would be fine if you were like, oh man, well, I'm glad I got that much done. You hold yourself to absolutely astronomical expectations. And then when you don't meet those impossible plans that you've made, you act like you failed.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:48

And I don't think that's the intention, but I think about it a lot when you're doing things that I do for us, and you are like, it'll only take me 30 minutes. It's something that takes me like a full workday.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 13:02

And then when it doesn't take you 30 minutes and it takes you also a full workday, I don't know. It just immediately makes me feel like, oh, so he thinks I've just been putzing around.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Like I I don't have a good defense for that.

SPEAKER_04 13:19

And I know that it's not about other people.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

I know I'm not comparing it when I'm not I'm doing this. I'm like, I'm never evaluating your method and being like, it takes her forever. I'm just like, I think I should definitely do better. No, it's not, it's not about doing better or worse. I go into it with an expectation of like I think it should take this long for me without really evaluating what it takes for someone else. Promise. I'm just that self-centered, you know. I don't really, I'm not even worried about what you're doing.

SPEAKER_04 13:47

Totally.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:48

What a start this.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

This is facetious.

SPEAKER_04 13:50

Uh, what did I do this week? I don't know. Hornworms returned.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Oh, return of the hornworms, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:57

Return of the hornworm.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

What are we doing with those? Are we clear at the moment?

SPEAKER_04 14:01

We're clear and have been clear the last couple of days.

unknown 14:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 14:05

Hornworm count is 22.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 14:08

Which is less than last year.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Yeah. Well, weren't we gone?

SPEAKER_04 14:12

Last year we were gone for about 72 hours, and I got back, and there were 23 hornworms on the plants at once.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:22

Which was bananas, and they'd been there for a while, so they were huge.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Well, and they took out half the plant.

SPEAKER_04 14:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Which we could honestly lose half the tomato plant, right?

SPEAKER_04 14:33

We did, and we did. Not from the hornworms that seemed to be a little bit more than a lot of people. We've removed half the tomato plant. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

But if something got rid of it for us, we would be okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

We have cherry tomatoes just coming out our eyes.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Plus, I had our kids like them, which is good.

SPEAKER_04 14:47

They do?

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Yeah. G'll cut them in half, put some salt on them, she'll eat them straight out.

SPEAKER_03 14:51

That's how I eat them.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:52

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Yeah. I I keep forgetting to offer them to her, but she's she's down with them.

SPEAKER_04 14:58

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:00

Yeah. I they also got my banana peppers.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Oh, did they? I didn't think they messed with anything else.

SPEAKER_04 15:05

Yeah, they did. I I got them off, but wait, you just say they're a fruit? Yeah. Well, technically there's no definition of vegetable, so correct.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

But they classify as a fruit. Vegetable is a catch-all, but pick it under fruit.

SPEAKER_04 15:21

But tons of vegetables are fruits.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

Fruits are fruits. Vegetables are things we eat that aren't fruits.

SPEAKER_04 15:29

No, they aren't.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

Yes, they are. What do you mean?

SPEAKER_04 15:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

It's a definition thing.

SPEAKER_04 15:35

Vegetables are just things we eat that aren't fruits.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

I'm pretty sure that's the definition of it.

SPEAKER_04 15:39

Okay. Fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Are you okay? You look bothered.

SPEAKER_04 15:43

Yeah, I am kind of bothered. Not by you. I don't like that.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

I will look it up for you right now.

SPEAKER_04 15:48

No, I don't need you to look it up. It makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

It'll fall under the definition. We just have to define vegetable. That's all it is. Define vegetable.

SPEAKER_04 15:57

Because like zucchini would be a fruit, then.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

Any edible parts of a plant consumed as food, including roots, stems, leaves, bulbs, flowers, and seeds. Oh.

SPEAKER_04 16:07

A fruit is a vegetable, but a vegetable is not a fruit.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Right? That's what I'm looking up.

SPEAKER_04 16:13

I think that that's I think it's a square rectangle situation.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

Oh, hold on. I'm wrong about tomatoes. According to the 1893 Supreme Court, Nix vs. Hedden, the court ruled that tomatoes must legally be classified as vegetables and taxed accordingly. So you know I'm a man of the law, so especially if that law is 130 years old.

SPEAKER_04 16:35

I think all fruits are vegetables, though.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:38

But not all vegetables are fruits.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

Some of there's also botanical classification and culinary classification.

SPEAKER_03 16:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

So it's um mixing up biology terms and culinary terms.

SPEAKER_03 16:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

A fruit is a very specific thing. So like a tomato is a fruit. Broccoli florets are a flower.

SPEAKER_04 16:57

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

That kind of thing. What about zucchini?

SPEAKER_04 17:00

Zucchini is a fruit?

SPEAKER_00 17:02

Uh probably. Yeah. It has something to do with the seeds too. But yeah. Just the seed-bearing structure in flower and plants. Yes. Nuts and grains are also fruits. I guess. Although nuts, aren't they legumes? Anyway, it doesn't matter. We're getting way down this. But it's a culinary term and a botanical term. But according to the Supreme Court of the United States, tomatoes are vegetables.

SPEAKER_04 17:28

Nuts and seeds are fruits?

SPEAKER_00 17:30

They're the part of the plant that is. Wouldn't nuts be seeds?

SPEAKER_04 17:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

And wouldn't seeds. I don't know. I don't know. I was reading a discussion, and I think the discussion is maybe I don't know. I'm taking one person's opinion, maybe a little heavily.

SPEAKER_03 17:46

My brain's broken.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

I think we learned less as we talked more.

SPEAKER_03 17:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Which is on brand.

SPEAKER_03 17:52

Very on brand. That feels like I think we're overthinking.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

Oh wow. Look at that. What a name drop.

SPEAKER_03 17:57

I don't think I've ever done that before.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

That seems impossible. There's no way. In 25 episodes, we've definitely done that before. That's what we did in the real world. Uh, have you done anything online? Is there any chronically online discussion

Love Island Fame And Social Strategy

SPEAKER_00 18:10

to be had?

SPEAKER_04 18:10

Yes. Love Island's over.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Oh, you seem so happy about that.

SPEAKER_04 18:14

I'm so excited. I didn't finish it.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Really?

SPEAKER_04 18:19

I never finished the last episode.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

So you have like an hour and a half left?

SPEAKER_04 18:24

Like 45 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Not okay. Awesome.

SPEAKER_04 18:27

And I don't really care.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

What okay. I'm so confused.

SPEAKER_04 18:30

Well, because I know who wins, and I am and I know what everybody's talking about through discussion and stuff because I was there for the whole season and I really don't care.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 18:41

But the part that I'm fascinated by is they uh get their phones back at the end and they get to see how much their audiences have grown. So the lowest following per followed person going into Love Island was Trinity. She had 3,000 followers across platforms.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 18:59

And she now has over 2 million.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

It's good. There's a reason people want to be on the show.

SPEAKER_04 19:05

Isn't that nuts? But then there are other people that were on that started out like with 15,000. Like I think TT, I wish I would have actually pulled up the list for this, but I think she only has like 200,000.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

Ah, gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 19:19

So some people don't get the same kind of bump.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

How important is it to be on it for long? Like I'm sure.

SPEAKER_04 19:25

On it for what?

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Longer. I think like your length of stay on the show.

SPEAKER_04 19:30

I don't think you're I think your length of stay on the show gives you a greater chance of being somebody that people are emotionally invested in. Okay. I do not think that being on the show for a short period of time is automatically a guarantee that you won't have people invested in.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

I think my engineer brain is showing. I'm like, who has the most follows per minute?

SPEAKER_04 19:53

Like Trinity.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

That's what I want to know.

SPEAKER_04 19:56

Well, actually, probably Soul.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 19:59

That was a girl that was on for a short period of time.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

That like that's what I'm curious about is obviously people like who they like and those people will be followed. But were there people that were on for like three weeks that people really liked that blew up?

SPEAKER_04 20:11

But it's also a lot less about how they handle on the show and how it's much more on how they handle when they come off.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Got it.

SPEAKER_04 20:20

So Jen is someone that was on the show that didn't make it the whole time. She was on it for a while though. But when she got her phone back and was out, she immediately launched into getting regular content out, being uh supportive of all the other cast members and kind of poking jokes at things that happened during the season, like her and this guy, Gall, who's from Venice. You did you see him?

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:49

So oh, you saw the conversation between the two of them. You watched that episode. Or did I? Yeah, where he was telling the girl that uh she was overreacting or she was, I don't remember what I don't know if I saw that. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

I don't know if I was there for maybe I was like in the room, but I'm not sure. He was only in like a few episodes, so I'm laughing because you've the like Big Al's Toy Barn on TikTok. He does some stand-up. He also has like he has his like ASMR podcast where he's like grilling in the park. You know what I'm talking about? No, I want to show them to you. So he like I send you his stuff semi-regular. He's he's funny.

SPEAKER_04 21:26

Okay, so I probably do.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

He's so funny. I I love his stuff, but he also does but he Gall's coffee shop, which I don't know that much about the show. I just know that he constantly talked about his coffee shop.

SPEAKER_04 21:38

He didn't constantly talk about his coffee shop. No, no, no. To be clear, he did not constantly talk about his coffee shop. Everybody talked about him owning a coffee shop and were asking for him to make their coffees in the morning. And his coffee shop was super vocal on social media.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 21:54

And so because they were super vocal online, like everybody knew about it because his Team marketed it really, really well. Okay. Like when he was an asshole to Jen, who's the girl I'm talking about, they made a video on their TikTok and was like, we can't pick who our boss is, but we can try to make up for what he did. Anyone named Jen, come in and you'll get a free coffee today.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

Like that's hilarious.

SPEAKER_04 22:18

Like they like really played into it well.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Got it. That's awesome. That's awesome. Anyway, he goes to that coffee shop. Like he went to it. He's a long-standing customer of that coffee shop. And he's like, I can't go to that coffee shop anymore. It is jam-packed. And he's just like, I just want my regular thing. Yeah. And then he like he knows Gall.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

And he was talking to him and he's like, Yeah, it's just filled with women who like kind of hate me now, but want to get coffee there. It's funny.

SPEAKER_04 22:45

So that's hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

It's great. Well, mainly I think they're like roasting him, not hating like right, totally.

SPEAKER_04 22:52

Well, he uh Jen got knocked off the show and Gall and her had like that where he it just didn't go well on the show between them. Like they weren't interested. She had a really funny line where she was like, If I wanted to date some uh lame surfer boy from Venice, I would just move back to LA, like something like that, you know, because she's a model and um I really liked her. Right. But they uh did a photo shoot together where I like I don't know, all this stuff and like really played into things and obviously are getting along fine and are friendly with one another. And the reason I brought that up is I think the people who build the most cult like followings and really loyal audiences post-show like that are people that are able to immediately get online and lean into the conversation and the jokes and the fun and like the culture that's built around it.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Got it.

SPEAKER_04 23:52

Rather than there are also people that were on the show who come out and then try to defend themselves and try to make something out of nothing, or they're like bashing other contestants, or like, no, you don't understand, you shouldn't like them, they're terrible, or whatever. And those are the people who immediately draw back down tomato, tomato, tomato, tomato.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Got it. Okay. So when you come out, is it best to stay involved show wise? Are you trying to do your own content direction?

SPEAKER_04 24:23

No, you stay involved show-wise, and you're silly goofy, and you're supportive and you're kind, and you are a good steward of being the butt the butt of the joke.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

Got it.

SPEAKER_04 24:35

Like you allow yourself to You play your role. Yeah, you play your role.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Yeah. If you were the good guy, you stay the good guy.

SPEAKER_04 24:42

If you were the bad guy, you stay the bad guy, or you Well, I think if you were ended up being the bad guy, your best move is being like really owning it.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 24:52

And you go full heel, like you don't go full heel like you're the villain, but you own that you didn't handle things well. Sure. And you continue, hopefully, as long as you weren't so terrible that you have cultivated good relationships with people within the house.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

You could just actually be a bad person, you know.

SPEAKER_04 25:11

You could actually be a bad person. But if you're not and you got a bad edit, sure. You get on, you don't defend yourself, you own it, and you proceed with having good relationships with other people in the house, and I think you can still make a career out of it.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

Sure. Okay. Got it. You're a big you love social media, you love strategy, so I was curious what you really do. I figured you had takes on the directions that you can.

SPEAKER_04 25:35

I think Jen is doing the best job out of everybody so far in terms of it's very strategic and very well executed. Other people are growing like faster and better, but there's not as much direction. They're not doing anything wrong, but she has a real clear.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

She has direct most momentum. Is that the right way to put it?

SPEAKER_04 25:59

I think in terms of where she's planning to take her career, yes.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 26:03

She's a model. I'm assuming from what she shared that she's hoping this will she's a very successful model already, but I'm thinking that she's hoping this will take her to like the next level.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

Yeah, I guess that does make sense. You would want that kind of career where promotion is so I mean, your job is promotion, you're a model. But if you go into it with a focus and a plan, you can really uh launch something.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Whereas some people, if you were like a telemarketer before, you're gonna have to spin something up out of nowhere. Or interesting, interesting. So I know a lot of people go on the show for the social pop.

SPEAKER_04 26:40

Yeah, but I'm glad it's over.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 26:43

I had fun in terms of knowing what's going on and like being a part of the social dynamics of it all. I don't know that I had fun.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

It's a lot of TV for you.

SPEAKER_04 26:57

Like, if it wasn't on social media and it wasn't something everybody talked about, it's something I would never do with my own time.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

Well, I really laughed a couple times watching you watch some episodes where you sat down and you would 15 seconds skip 40 minutes of show in one. Like if it was an hour and a half long, you'd be like, click, click, click, click, don't care, don't care, don't care, don't care, don't care, don't care. It would be some challenge. Then you'd be like, Okay, got it. I think I've seen enough of this on social media, like, click, click. You would do if it was a 45-minute episode, nine minutes. Hour and a half, maybe 20, like of time that you sat down and watched it with other people, you were enjoying it. You had a conversation going, it was a social thing, but it is definitely a social thing for you. It's watching you watch it, I was like, I don't even know why you turned this on.

SPEAKER_04 27:42

It's not so that I could keep up with everybody, what everybody's saying.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

But you didn't hear anything anyone said.

SPEAKER_04 27:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

You were just like facial expression, facial expression, two or three.

SPEAKER_03 27:53

I did more than that.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

Whatever I saw you watch, you did not.

SPEAKER_03 27:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:57

Just 30 second, 30 minute chunks at a time. Just I respect it. I I'm a completionist. You know that. I would sit there and just grind the whole thing.

SPEAKER_04 28:08

I'm a little

Reality TV Ethics And Money Power

SPEAKER_04 28:10

insufferable, I think, in that I have a lot of opinions about how participating in the systems that we have are part of our cultural demise.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 28:24

And things like Love Island feel that way to me, and like Mormon wives and some of these other like I it feels like the question that went really viral for us in 2020, where it's like, if you were offered a billion dollars to punch your uh wife or your girlfriend in the face, yeah, whatever, would you do it? And it's like, well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

And it still would stand by that.

SPEAKER_04 28:51

And it it speaks to I've also thought a lot about the fact that like it's not like you're practicing punching anything ever. So you're not as concerned that you're gonna like kill me.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

I guess. Sure.

SPEAKER_04 29:02

Some people are really worried about they're gonna that they would kill their wife if they punch them as hard as they could.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

If you punch them as hard as you can.

SPEAKER_04 29:09

Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

People are overthinking how I don't think you have form. I think that's rude, and I think I know plenty about form. You know, I research everything. Um it comes from the lower half. Tight.

SPEAKER_04 29:24

Well, then maybe I would die. But you know what?

SPEAKER_00 29:28

I think people think people die too easy.

SPEAKER_04 29:30

I would I what?

SPEAKER_00 29:32

She's going through it, guys, okay? No, I'm not she's not having a good mental health month. And so she's like, you know what? If I died because you punched me in the face for a billion dollars, I'm glad our kids are set up. And it's not my problem anymore.

SPEAKER_04 29:44

That is kind of how I feel.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

That is a cry for help, but No, it's not.

SPEAKER_04 29:50

I don't know. That's not what I mean. I'm not saying please do it. That's not what I'm saying. But I'd like to restart.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Like that's a hell of a life insurance policy.

SPEAKER_04 29:58

No, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 29:59

Exactly. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

Yeah. But for a billion dollars, I can have the therapy I need to get through killing my wife, I guess, right?

SPEAKER_04 30:06

Probably not. No, not personally, had I was about to say, I don't think that would go well for you.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

Electro show, surely there's something we can do.

SPEAKER_04 30:14

I think it might help you that like you were like, it's what she wanted.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

This is we did a podcast about it. It's how she wanted to go.

SPEAKER_04 30:22

Oh my gosh. Okay, wait, let me get back to something that's always bothered me about that. Is like, yes, it's true, but it's also an indication of us living in a time that wealth and money prioritizes the quality of life that you have. I mean, I guess that's always been true, but it's so incredibly extreme, and it is everybody's priority.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

Yeah. Well, I mean, the middle class has really almost never existed.

SPEAKER_04 30:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

For most of human history, there's been like 15 people that have all of the money, and then everybody else has nothing. They own all the land, they control, you know, millions, everything. They control everything.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

And then everybody else is peasants. And for this little chunk of human history, there has existed a middle class. And we're working on getting rid of it again, but you know.

SPEAKER_04 31:18

Well, I feel like watching Love Island and watching things like that feels I it's the downfall of the middle class. No, I hate talking about stuff like this and that I have these thought processes because I fear sounding like I'm being judgmental of people who enjoy it or watch it or making it deeper than it is, or because I really don't, I'm not judging anybody, I'm not thinking about anybody. I just have a tendency to think about we're taking people and kind of humiliating them for show. And even if they're willing participants in that, is that okay? And they're putting their mental health on the line and they're putting themselves on a chopping block to be absolutely cut down by millions of people. Like, I just don't like the whole system. Okay. And that's why I have a tendency to have a hard time engaging engaging in it.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

Engaging with it.

SPEAKER_04 32:13

But I love the social aspect.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

You love a little piece of monoculture.

SPEAKER_04 32:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:18

To some degree, though, that's the entertainment business. It always has.

SPEAKER_04 32:21

I know.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

Not necessarily always humiliation, but it does, it's quite literally putting people on a pedestal in some way.

SPEAKER_03 32:27

I know.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

Whether to throw tomatoes at them or to raise them into a higher being, and neither one of them is the real reality.

SPEAKER_04 32:35

Right. I think I just struggle with that.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

I think it's just something that makes you think about it more. You it it raises an awareness in you rather than a judgment. You're not going out like raging against no, not at all.

SPEAKER_04 32:47

I mean, I watched and I had a great time with my friends, and I it's not like that.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

But it's just sensitivity for you.

SPEAKER_04 32:53

Yeah, it is really sensitive to me, and I don't know why.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

It's interesting.

SPEAKER_04 32:56

I don't know what it is about it. I I think part of it is people have a lot to say about reality stars and influencers and creators, but we don't have anything to say about MBA players or MLB players, or not never, like you hear things sometimes, but for the most part, everybody's okay with that, but not okay. You know what I mean? Like, I I start to get dicey with stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

Okay.

unknown 33:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

It's valid.

SPEAKER_04 33:28

I don't know. Maybe I'm just insecure.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

We all have insecurities. Anyway, that's my uh Love Island, the the end of Love Island that yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:36

Uh Chronically Online.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

Chronically Online, okay. Yeah. Got it.

SPEAKER_04 33:39

There have been all kinds of edits and stuff. I'm hoping that Bryce becomes a DJ now just full time rather than having to

Trash Truck Life And Always Sunny

SPEAKER_04 33:45

work on the trash truck. Although he seemed to like his job as uh uh a trash trash truck? I think that he cleaned trash. I don't know. Yeah. I think he cleans trash trucks or he like maintains.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

Okay. I don't know. I won't lie, I feel like people that do trash trucks usually like it. It's not the worst life. Usually they're paid well and your hours aren't insane. Is my I think I'm gonna say all of this. I don't actually know this for a fact. But usually you have to wake up early because a lot of times they go out early, but then they're done fairly early too, and you have I think it's a fairly decent work-life balance and usually compensated well, especially like in bigger cities. So it's probably not the worst in the world. It's a straightforward job, you know, you're not having to really think about it. I'm sure there's terrible days you have to really deal with some smells. I feel like I'd be good at it.

SPEAKER_04 34:39

You would be good at it. I think you'd like it.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

Yeah, not a lot of thinking, just trash in the truck.

SPEAKER_04 34:45

You could listen to a podcast and just fly.

SPEAKER_00 34:48

Sometimes you get to stand on the outside of a truck, ride.

SPEAKER_04 34:51

Honestly, I feel like it combines all your interests.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

What trash?

SPEAKER_04 34:56

No, oh not having to think, physical labor, yeah, repetitive task.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Yeah, yeah. Again, I hear trash truck and I'm like, that could be a lot worse.

SPEAKER_04 35:06

A machine that it has buttons.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

Yeah, big heavy truck.

SPEAKER_04 35:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

Although I don't always love driving a big truck.

SPEAKER_04 35:12

Well, you wouldn't, I don't think you want to drive though, because it doesn't everything work in a team. I think that's true. Obviously, there's like a driver and a guy. So I feel like you don't want to be the driver, you want to be the trash guy.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

That's true. That would be the life. Yeah. If you're a dedicated trash guy and you don't have to drive the truck, yeah. So you don't have any of the anxiety of driving the truck.

SPEAKER_04 35:30

And I'm sure somebody else would be thrilled to just drive the truck. Just drive the truck, and they're like, I don't have to. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

Yeah, I would be paired with like an old guy that doesn't want to throw trash, and I'd be like, I'm the trash thrower.

SPEAKER_04 35:42

They call me the trash man.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

That sound on TikTok, which is from Always Sunny. So I've I've loved that show forever. But I'm the trash man, I'm gonna throw trash all around the ring. Yeah, I'm gonna eat garbage. Yeah, it's so good. I love that. You don't know what I'm talking about. You should look it up. It's great. Love that episode. That's the wrestling, the gang.

SPEAKER_04 36:05

Anyway, you love always sunny.

SPEAKER_00 36:07

Love that show. I've always loved it. I think it's still going. They went making it. I've I've watched all of it that they've made. I'm looking that up now. Always Sunny.

SPEAKER_03 36:17

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

Season 18. Yeah. They just set an hour ago they set a release date for season 18.

SPEAKER_04 36:24

Oh wow. Big news.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

Yeah. That's so like they've done a show so long. And when you do a show that long, it yeah, it's really impressive. They're they're interesting people. I know people he changed Rob Maclehenny changed his name to Rob Mack, which I don't even I don't even understand why. I haven't looked that much into it. I feel like people have big feelings about him.

SPEAKER_04 36:46

Big feelings, how?

SPEAKER_00 36:47

I think it was pro for a while. I think it's kind of con now.

SPEAKER_04 36:50

Because of well, he's this feels chronically online.

SPEAKER_00 36:54

It is chronically online, but I haven't done the research. Oh, okay. Maybe I'll bring it to the table next week. I also know that it's super relevant. Other than the fact, oh his sunny just set a release date, so maybe we can parlay that into I know that him and What's Her Faith have been married for a long time. Kristen Olsen?

SPEAKER_04 37:08

No idea.

SPEAKER_00 37:09

The D on the show. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. They're funny. Danny DeVito's funny. It's kind of a cool group. They did a podcast for a while that I enjoyed. They recapped their episodes and like analyzed them, which was entertaining. I digress. I digress. Ward of the

Word Of The Week Susurrus

SPEAKER_00 37:25

week? Let me get you on. Ward of the week. Have we done Susuris?

SPEAKER_04 37:30

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

Okay. Apologies if we have. It's a word I like. Susuris.

SPEAKER_04 37:35

I really don't think we have.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

Okay. You want to take a stab at spelling it?

SPEAKER_04 37:40

S-A.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

Wrong.

SPEAKER_04 37:42

Okay. S E wrong. C E. Okay, just tell me. Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 37:51

It only has three letters. S-U, S U, R R U S. Cesuris.

SPEAKER_04 37:57

Kind of like Toys R Us, but Cesurus.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

It has us at the end, yeah. Yeah. And an R, yeah. Sesur R Us. That was that was a stretch.

SPEAKER_04 38:06

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

Any guess on what it means?

SPEAKER_04 38:09

No idea.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

A whispering or rustling sound.

SPEAKER_04 38:13

Cesuris.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

Yeah. The ceserus of the sea. All around.

SPEAKER_04 38:18

The word sounds like the definition. Right? Cesuris.

SPEAKER_00 38:21

Yeah. The Cesuris. The Cesurus of leaves in the wind.

SPEAKER_04 38:26

Ooh. If I wrote books, that would be good.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

It would. It is a word, again, we've done a lot of these words that if you put it in a book, people would be like, I don't know. You'd have to really lean into the context clues, or they'd have to look it up. I love to pull up either an archaic word or just one so obscure that it just doesn't hit. But I like that one, Sesuras. Mainly because it just rolls off the tongue. Sounds like what it is?

SPEAKER_04 38:50

Sesuras.

SPEAKER_00 38:51

Sesuras.

SPEAKER_04 38:52

I like it. Uh hit us with a voicemail

Personal Growth With Partner And Kids

SPEAKER_04 38:55

or a text message or an email.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

All right. Hey Joe and Matt. I wanted to know if you have any advice on how to continue to grow personally while having a family or significant other. I'm struggling to continue to find passions and hobbies while maintaining a relationship. Thanks for the pod every week.

SPEAKER_04 39:11

When your kids are little, like really little, I think this is a big disservice we do to moms, maybe dads too. I'd be curious about your feedback.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 39:22

But so many women I know have a 18-month-old and will say, I just feel so lost. I haven't found myself again. And it's like, well, yeah, you have an 18-month-old.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:35

I think that in Western culture, especially in the United States, women think now, like there's been this huge resurgence of like, you need to get your pink back. You need to, you deserve to have your independence and have take care of yourself too, etc. And I think that that's been confused with another task moms need to do. So now you need to be a super present mom and you need to be organized, and you need to be documenting your kids' childhood perfectly. And you need to be um also making time for your partner. And you need to be making time for yourself and show how independent and still in touch with yourself you are while doing all of that. Like I feel like it's been an added task rather than like a performative hobby.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

Like a performative hobby, like you need to do this to show that you have something outside of.

SPEAKER_04 40:28

I don't think that it's performative.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 40:31

I think that it's something that women are taking on and internalizing as oh, I'm failing if I'm not also doing this.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

Got it. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 40:40

And so the reason I bring that up is I don't think there is a lot of finding yourself or feeling real clarity on yourself individually until your kids hit three.

SPEAKER_02 40:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:57

Four. Because you're pretty busy with them. It's not that you can't do things for yourself. It's not that you can't, you know, take the time to focus on you. But that time is not going to feel like this big independent personal growth journey, I don't think.

SPEAKER_00 41:18

Okay. What about if you're just in a relationship, not kids? Because I feel like that might be more in the spirit of the question.

SPEAKER_04 41:24

I would wonder what's stopping you from personal growth.

SPEAKER_00 41:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 41:28

Like I don't know that more. I don't think that I have ever experienced in a relationship that is healthy a need to stop my personal growth and my own independent journey. And I think that's something that really led me back to our relationship and gave me confidence when we reconnected to end up back together.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 41:51

Because our entire relationship, I've always felt very encouraged and celebrated and supported in pursuing who I wanted to be individually and growing individually while also knowing we were growing together.

SPEAKER_02 42:05

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:06

So I think that if being in a relationship absorbing if you're feeling like your relationship's absorbing all of your capacity and that you're not getting time to yourself to think about your things, I think that would be a conversation that needed to be had with your partner.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:23

Because I don't think that's something that you can do better individually. I mean, maybe it depends on circumstances.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

I was having that thought when you were talking about with a family, is it's very dependent on your partner. You and your partner have to have that dynamic. You have to have somebody that is like you have to have a support system, ideally your partner, but if that's family or you have the ability to pay for care, like that, that is required to be able to explore that. Just in a relationship, not really the same barrier to entry. But yeah, I'd be curious to know if it's more of an individual issue finding hobbies, exploring what you're interested in, just not having that just struggling with that. I like I understand that fully. I've I've struggled to develop hobbies and stay consistent and really explore what am I looking for, what am I lacking? And that's more of a ADHD not connected to my body dissociation issue rather than a support issue. Because you've the entire time we've ever been together encouraged me to grow and develop and pursue hobbies and relationships and all of those things. And so a start there. Is it self-limited or is it limited by maintaining a relationship and who you're with? If it's not who you're with, it's it's something probably more to explore in like a therapy setting in terms of how do you connect to what you're looking for? How do you allow yourself to want something? How do you listen to that voice and encourage it?

SPEAKER_04 43:56

Well, and as you add people to your lives, whether that's a partner or children. The way that you navigate stuff changes. So you do have to kind of reinvent the way you do it. And I don't know that I'm the best to give advice on that just because we've been together so long. And I don't think that's something I've ever had to think about. Like I don't think that's something we've had to work for.

SPEAKER_00 44:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 44:18

Or I I shouldn't no, I should clarify. Maybe not we. I would agree that you've struggled with that more.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

100%. But it's a it's an individual issue.

SPEAKER_04 44:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

I've struggled with that outside of a relationship. In fact, I think our relationship has pushed me more to do those things. By myself, I would find one thing that I'm interested in, and I would just do that either forever or until it lost its sparkle for me. And then you move on.

SPEAKER_03 44:44

Totally.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

And so you've been a much more present example of growing personal growth and uh fixation for me. You love personal growth. You love a performance metric. You want like KPIs for I do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:59

Badly.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

That's great. Love that. You've got a little analyst deep inside somewhere. This person actually has two messages. Somebody also had a suggestion that my videos uh could just be called This Is Not a Tutorial.

SPEAKER_04 45:14

That would be a good series.

SPEAKER_00 45:15

Yes. Yeah. It's not bad. I like the uh it's a nice fun disclaimer up at the top. Gives it a little branding.

SPEAKER_04 45:22

Welcome back to This Is Not a Tutorial.

SPEAKER_00 45:24

Today I'll be doing XYZ. That's funny. I like it.

SPEAKER_04 45:29

Who's that? Give them credit.

SPEAKER_00 45:31

Credit. Credit where it's due. Their name's not on it. Shout out to you in North Carolina.

SPEAKER_04 45:36

Shout out North Carolina.

SPEAKER_00 45:38

Good ideas coming from North Carolina.

SPEAKER_04 45:40

Welcome back to not a tutorial, a series where you can watch me perform regular maintenance around my home, but please don't take it as advice.

SPEAKER_00 45:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 45:49

I like it. Yeah. I think that's solid.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

I think it's got legs. Here's a good question. This might be uh here, you want to read this one?

SPEAKER_04 45:56

All right. My fiance and I have been together for almost 10

Freelance Money Planning For Families

SPEAKER_04 46:00

years, and he's been a freelance YouTube editor for almost half of that. He's worked with some amazing people and loves what he does. I've never not had a full-time employed job, so struggle more with the instability of freelance work. Even though he's always provided, sometimes it still comes with last-minute stresses when things can change in that space so quickly. We don't have kids yet, but we would love to in the next few years. Other than having emergency savings, do you have any tips on financial planning as someone in the creative freelance space while having a family? Do I?

SPEAKER_00 46:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 46:28

Uh okay.

SPEAKER_00 46:29

So you love that one.

SPEAKER_04 46:30

I do love this one. The strategy that I always use when I was doing wedding photography is instead of looking at what I could make any given month or looking at what my top months were or what my average months were, I looked at what my floor was for the year. So if I wanted to make $60,000, the thing about being freelance is maybe one month you'll make $20,000 and another month you'll make zero. And I always kept that in mind. So I would base all of my budgeting on $60,000 a year. I'm using that as an example number because it's going to be easy to do the math, not because that's right. Like you have to find what that is for you. But that means that I would have $5,000 a month for my expenses. And what I would do is have my business account that all my freelance income goes into. Um, I would immediately pull stuff for taxes off to the side. So that's already ready and prepared. And then anything I made over that $5,000 threshold would get put into a high yield savings that just sat there for usually quarterly because I paid my taxes quarterly. Then at the quarter mark every quarter, I would get a bonus if I had extra money in there. So if I made $20,000 in January, then well, let's I'm eliminating taxes from this conversation just because I'm trying to make it as simple as possible. That $15,000 would go into that high yield savings account. And then if in February I only made $2,000, I could pull $3,000 out of it in order to supplement. But then in March I made $8,000. So another $3,000 goes in. And then my quarterly taxes go and I would leave some kind of floor number in that high yield savings account, like $5,000 if I needed to. But it's basically a float account so that I'm always receiving the same reliable income from my freelance work. And then I also have a bonus structure. So I budgeted, I made all of my goals and my planning based on my base salary that I was paying myself. And then the bonuses or what I would budget every quarter for doing fun stuff or extra stuff or extra investing, extra saving, et cetera.

SPEAKER_02 49:02

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 49:02

Did I explain that in a way that makes sense at all? I on my website, I think it's still live. Like years ago, I did an entire breakdown of this via actually writing it out for you.

SPEAKER_00 49:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:15

And that's probably more helpful than trying to explain it verbally.

SPEAKER_00 49:18

Yeah. The other thing I would say is especially if you're structured well as a business, and I'm not a CPA, I'm not a business planner, but there do exist business lines of credit to maintain a payroll. So you could explore that. Again, with no knowledge of your financial situation, what the cash flows are, that's best to probably talk about with an accountant or with somebody that does business planning, but you could explore lines of credit that can float a payroll as your actual costs go up and down. Obviously, be very careful with a line of credit in terms of I feel like that's kind of what I did for myself.

SPEAKER_04 49:57

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 49:57

You were describing that. But if you're not somebody that either has that ready to start, or if you have records, you're gonna need records in terms of your business. You're gonna have to prove reliable income. But if you have 10 years of business records, especially if you have a relationship existing with a bank that has seen your business records, you could explore a line of credit option in terms of trying to maintain a steady payroll.

SPEAKER_04 50:20

Well, I think the thing that's really easy when you do freelance is to fall into well, I think I can make XYZ, and then basing off of that, rather than looking at what you have made and making all of your plans around that and then granting yourself bonuses if you go beyond that.

SPEAKER_00 50:37

And it can be dangerous to go, this is my average. I'm gonna always average this because averages can go down.

SPEAKER_04 50:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

And so if you shoot for a reasonable floor and below median, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:50

Well, and then if you're doing it quarterly, you're getting a bonus every 12 weeks. So it shouldn't stop you too much from booking a vacation if you're making more or going to do something fun if you're making more, etc.

SPEAKER_00 51:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:06

That's how I did it.

SPEAKER_00 51:07

Totally. Yeah. It's basically there may be business lines of credit that you can explore, or you are your own line of credit and you it just requires building up that reserve.

SPEAKER_02 51:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 51:16

With a family, though, it is important to have a plan in terms of we're gonna have these so that it's steady. Yeah. You're gonna want three to six months of some some forecast ability.

SPEAKER_03 51:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

But I get being the person that's like, I get a salary and I get paid every two weeks, and that is the stability. I've I've gotten my whole life off stability, and so it's been a crash course for the city. Marrying me was a uh it's been really good for me, and it's been really hard. It's been really hard in terms of it's totally antithetical to the way I think, but I've also seen you execute it year over year, going, No, I'll just make more, or I will do more, I I have this all planned out, and it is gonna work out.

SPEAKER_04 51:58

Well, and I've been self-employed for almost a decade.

SPEAKER_00 52:01

Yeah, totally. Yeah, it is um, it's still wild to see and feel, but I have learned that you can do it and that it is um there is something to the spirit of going. You'll hear people say sometimes that it's easier to make more than to save more. And you've you've taught me that definitely. There is there's only so much you can save if you're on a fixed income, if you are, if you have the ability to scale your your income, and that's you know, some sometimes you do, sometimes you don't, and you have to be able to to weather the downside of it. But if you can make more, that has more utility than saving more out of a fixed level.

SPEAKER_04 52:44

So if you can balance the two together, like if you're a salary person, clarify it's about you can only minimize your lifestyle so much in order to save. If you can have a reasonable lifestyle and then also increase your income, then your ability to save grows tenfold.

SPEAKER_00 53:03

Yeah, yeah. Adding, yeah. Which sounds dumb when I say adding income makes it easier to like.

SPEAKER_04 53:09

Well, no, that's why I was clarifying because the way that you were saying it, it's like, well, yeah, because you have more.

SPEAKER_00 53:14

You gotta make more to save more.

SPEAKER_04 53:16

No, exactly. And it's not really in there.

SPEAKER_00 53:19

There's a good lesson in there said by somebody with a better touch than I did there, but yeah, you get the gist. Yeah. Gist.

SPEAKER_04 53:26

So well, something that you've always done is like you will cut everything you love out of your life because you're like, Well, we're saving right now. And I kind of pushed back and I was like, Okay, but what if you still did the things you loved and instead you went through your closet and like sell everything that you don't wear anymore?

SPEAKER_02 53:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:46

And you were like, What? Like, you can still have all the things you love, and you know, I've never really understood the I understand that there are times that you need to cut back, and that's what it is. Like that's really a real thing.

SPEAKER_00 54:02

That's that's a climate I think a lot of people are in right now.

SPEAKER_04 54:04

Absolutely. And it's just understandably inflation and everything else.

SPEAKER_00 54:09

It's like, yeah, the cost of living has expanded well past wages, but yeah, there is also something to be said for um there's a limit to how much you can minimize your which I I have tried to find that limit personally, but there is only so small you can become.

SPEAKER_04 54:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 54:25

And at what cost?

SPEAKER_04 54:27

Totally.

Wrap Up And Listener Requests

SPEAKER_04 54:28

Well, leave us a voicemail, send us an email, rate and review the podcast. Yeah. Anything else?

SPEAKER_00 54:34

I think that's it. I think we're ready to rock. Enjoy.

SPEAKER_04 54:37

See you all soon. Bye.