True Crime and the Mandela Baby

We bounce from an undisclosed last-minute work trip to the everyday realities of sleep debt, screen time and what it feels like to be “on” all the time. Then we dig into true crime discourse, postpartum mental health, and listener questions about infertility support and the pressure of deciding whether to have another child. 

This week we talk:

• why reading lines on camera feels unnatural even when conversation feels easy 
• sleep guilt, health consequences and the screen time receipts 
• Lindsay Clancy case, postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis, and why “having help” misses the point 
• how online theories turn uncertainty into certainty and why that can get unhealthy fast 
• the first class upgrade glitch and why travel can wreck sleep 
• hosting friends, stocked-fridge hospitality and the ambivert question 
• word of the week and why we hate small talk 
• infertility and friendship, asking directly for support without sounding accusatory 
• deciding on one child versus another, timing postpartum and the emotional baggage we bring to the choice 

If you've got a thought to share or are looking for a bit of advice on something, leave us a voicemail at the link below!

https://www.speakpipe.com/overthinkingpod

If you'd like to message us you can use the email below or the text link at the top overthinking@theoverbys.com

CONNECT:
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Instagram: @jojohnsonoverby / @matt.overby
Website:  https://jojohnsonoverby.com/

Transcript

A Secret Set Trip Tease

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Look, the fans blowing on me.

SPEAKER_04 0:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:08

I look like I'm on stage performing.

SPEAKER_04 0:11

You were on stage.

SPEAKER_03 0:12

I was on stage last week.

SPEAKER_04 0:14

When I solo podcast.

SPEAKER_03 0:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 0:17

Is that still under wraps?

SPEAKER_03 0:18

It's still under wraps. Got it. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 0:21

We'll unveil when it's appropriate.

SPEAKER_03 0:22

We'll unveil. Next week we'll be able to unveil if everything continues on the schedule I was told.

SPEAKER_04 0:28

Okay.

unknown 0:29

Cool.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

Uh, but yeah, I was gone last week. Thank you for being kind about you know me bailing.

unknown 0:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:37

I got a really, really cool opportunity, and it was so last minute. Yeah. I had to uh book a flight and skedaddle on out of Arkansas.

SPEAKER_04 0:47

You booked your flight in a hotel two days before you left?

SPEAKER_03 0:51

Yeah, something like that. And it was really cool. I've never been on a set before.

SPEAKER_04 1:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

And that was an experience. I am no actress. That is what we learned. And that's all the teasers I'll tell you. Is if when you see what you're going to see, you're like, Joe, this is so embarrassing. Don't tell me. I'm not trying to pursue it.

SPEAKER_04 1:18

Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's not a career path. You're like, oh, this is gonna launch my commercial acting.

SPEAKER_03 1:23

No, it was never gonna happen. I don't really have an interest in acting.

SPEAKER_04 1:29

You can make, I mean, again, commercials, I think, is how you make money as an actor before you like really make it.

SPEAKER_03 1:35

I'm not good.

SPEAKER_04 1:36

What do you mean you're not good? Elaborate.

SPEAKER_03 1:38

I'm not good on a on camera. I panic.

SPEAKER_04 1:43

I'm not good. Elaborate. I'm not good in front of camera.

SPEAKER_03 1:47

Well, let's say the line is uh, I don't know, give me a line.

SPEAKER_04 1:52

You get in head, yeah, you get in your head about how you Yeah, like give me a line.

SPEAKER_03 1:56

Any line.

SPEAKER_04 1:57

Is it that you have a tough time getting into character?

SPEAKER_03 1:59

Is it that you have a tough time getting into character?

SPEAKER_04 2:02

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 2:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 2:05

It's not even that I have a tough time uh getting into character, it's that when I have to deliver the line, no matter what I do, it will sound cheesy.

SPEAKER_04 2:14

Really?

SPEAKER_03 2:15

Yeah, like I'm like, hello, welcome to my home.

SPEAKER_04 2:19

Like, like I'm right, that didn't feel organic.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

No, nothing about it. I cannot seem natural to save my life.

SPEAKER_04 2:27

Which is so funny given what your career of choice is.

SPEAKER_03 2:30

I can talk on a podcast like this, I can have a conversation. I don't mind having cameras around me. Yeah, but when I have to deliver lines and there's a specific thing that I have to do, it's immediately I'm out.

SPEAKER_04 2:46

I hear you. So I've I've seen it in action, it's always a little surprising.

SPEAKER_03 2:51

Me? Yeah, yeah. Why is it surprising?

SPEAKER_04 2:54

You just you you do struggle with it. Like struggle feels strong because I'm not saying you're bad at it, but it's no it does not come naturally.

SPEAKER_03 3:03

I don't disagree with that. I'm just saying, like, I don't even think I'd say I struggle with it because I just know I'm bad, and that's there's not a lot of struggle, it's just failure.

SPEAKER_04 3:14

It's not failure, it's not that bad, but you really don't. It's tough for you to read lines.

SPEAKER_03 3:19

Yeah, I'm not good at it, which is fine.

SPEAKER_04 3:22

That's not part of your gig. No, so not a scripted gal.

SPEAKER_03 3:27

Not a scripted gal, but I had a great trip. If I end up absolutely embarrassing myself, that's what it is, and it's fine. I had a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_04 3:36

It'll be cool regardless.

SPEAKER_03 3:37

I was really glad I got to do it, and now we're back to normal doing the last couple days of summer, and uh life is good.

SPEAKER_04 3:47

I mean, when you say normal, we had a crazy, a momentous week. Back to school, just craziness.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

Yeah. So much to get done, so much to get done, yes. I'm doing my hosting series on the interwebs.

SPEAKER_04 4:03

Well, yeah, you got back, and literally the next day you were having everybody over for dinner.

SPEAKER_03 4:07

Yeah, it was a lot.

SPEAKER_04 4:09

It was. Did we get up too early for you to do?

SPEAKER_03 4:11

I just can't stop yawning. I'm so sorry. I did so good two weeks ago. I was here, I was jazzed. This week I have not slept that much. It has been go, go, go, since I got back. Like, I just have not slept my normal amount. Matt's sleeping more though.

SPEAKER_04 4:31

Yeah, yeah. I've we've we've had a pretty good week. Coming off of a week that was truly horrific, much better week.

SPEAKER_03 4:38

I've been trying to push you to bed at like 9:30.

SPEAKER_04 4:40

I've been getting like six and a half hours of sleep, which is probably two more hours of sleep than I was getting for.

SPEAKER_03 4:47

I want you to get a little bit more.

SPEAKER_04 4:48

Seven and a half, I think, is what would be good. It's just gonna require convincing myself to go to bed so much earlier than I want

Sleep Guilt And Screen Time Reality

SPEAKER_04 4:56

to.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:56

We were listening to a song in the car that was like sleep is next with death, or friends with death, maybe the line. I was like, I get that.

SPEAKER_03 5:04

I don't get that. Yeah, I love to sleep.

SPEAKER_04 5:07

Hate sleep. I feel better when I get it, but I don't like doing it.

SPEAKER_03 5:11

Like, I would go inside and take a nap right now.

SPEAKER_04 5:14

I struggle with it.

SPEAKER_03 5:17

I would be so I would be delighted if I got to do that.

SPEAKER_04 5:20

I want the feeling of sleep, but I feel guilty for sleeping and I don't enjoy.

SPEAKER_03 5:24

You feel guilty?

SPEAKER_04 5:25

Yeah, just not to use my time.

SPEAKER_03 5:28

It's not a good use of your time.

SPEAKER_04 5:30

I don't feel like it is. It doesn't feel like a good use of my time.

SPEAKER_03 5:32

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 5:34

My body needs it, but my body's needs don't.

SPEAKER_03 5:37

That's so interesting because I don't feel like you optimize your time.

SPEAKER_04 5:41

Mm-mm. No.

SPEAKER_03 5:42

And I feel like you do lots of things.

SPEAKER_04 5:43

But I like to waste it on my terms. I want to waste it my way.

SPEAKER_03 5:47

Sleeping can be your way.

SPEAKER_04 5:50

It's not though.

SPEAKER_03 5:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 5:52

What if I want to look at my phone for an hour instead of sleeping?

SPEAKER_03 5:55

Then you got that locked in at like 9 a.m.

SPEAKER_04 6:00

I I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_03 6:01

I bet you've already clocked two hours of screen time today.

SPEAKER_04 6:04

How?

SPEAKER_03 6:05

Let's check.

SPEAKER_04 6:06

I I will. I don't even know how that's possible.

SPEAKER_03 6:09

I just somehow. An hour and 36 minutes.

SPEAKER_04 6:13

This is good podcasting. Where is screen time?

SPEAKER_03 6:16

Did you find it?

SPEAKER_04 6:17

An hour and a half of it is Spotify.

SPEAKER_03 6:19

It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_04 6:20

It was in the car with everybody.

SPEAKER_03 6:22

It doesn't.

SPEAKER_04 6:23

Fine. That's screen time. Great.

SPEAKER_03 6:24

How what did it say? Let me see.

SPEAKER_04 6:26

Said three hours.

unknown 6:27

Three.

SPEAKER_03 6:29

Oh, hey Matt. An hour and a half of it Spotify. Did you hear me say? An hour and 36 minutes.

SPEAKER_04 6:36

An hour and a half is Spotify and 30 minutes is maps. 17 is phone. Who did I call for 17 minutes? What? That doesn't even make sense. Uh, it was on phone in my pocket because I looked down and it was like changing somebody's contact information, which was cool.

SPEAKER_03 6:50

Three hours.

SPEAKER_04 6:51

Three hours.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

Your phone has been on for three hours. It's not even noon.

SPEAKER_04 6:55

It's fine.

SPEAKER_03 6:56

So I think that you've clocked in your hour of screen time. Now you can sleep.

SPEAKER_04 7:00

I'll sleep when I'm dead. And if I keep not sleeping, that'll be sooner than later.

SPEAKER_03 7:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 7:05

But that's been an initiative. Because two or three weeks ago I realized like, oh, my health is like actually suffering from not sleeping.

SPEAKER_03 7:12

I want to check mine now. You want to guess how much screen time I've had today?

SPEAKER_04 7:17

An hour and ten minutes.

SPEAKER_03 7:18

58 minutes.

SPEAKER_04 7:19

Ah, blew it.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

14 minutes of maps.

SPEAKER_04 7:23

That's when you were stressing in the car.

SPEAKER_03 7:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:26

Have you come down from that?

SPEAKER_03 7:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 7:28

What was your average?

SPEAKER_04 7:30

Average? I don't know. I hate this. Gonna feel judged. Eight hours.

SPEAKER_03 7:36

Let me see.

SPEAKER_04 7:36

Here's an a week with 11 hours.

SPEAKER_03 7:38

A week with 11-hour average?

SPEAKER_04 7:41

Yeah. It's not ideal.

SPEAKER_03 7:44

That's so bad.

SPEAKER_04 7:47

Sorry, I'm just a grown iPad kid. I don't know what to tell you.

SPEAKER_03 7:50

You are a grown iPad kid, but you didn't used to be a grown iPad kid.

SPEAKER_04 7:55

When?

SPEAKER_03 7:56

I don't know. Most of our adult life.

SPEAKER_04 7:59

Mine gets skewed because I have my AirPods in.

SPEAKER_03 8:02

Tell me more.

SPEAKER_04 8:03

I feel like screen time is deceiving because it's not me locked in on the screen all the time.

SPEAKER_03 8:07

It's that's so listening to TV shows is different than watching TV shows?

SPEAKER_04 8:12

I do think it is different. I'm doing other things while I do it. Well, that's for others to say.

SPEAKER_03 8:19

Okay.

unknown 8:20

What do you think?

SPEAKER_04 8:21

I don't want to ask.

SPEAKER_03 8:22

I'm concerned.

SPEAKER_04 8:23

Okay, that's fair.

SPEAKER_03 8:24

Did you see my average?

SPEAKER_04 8:26

No. Seven and a half.

SPEAKER_03 8:28

Six.

SPEAKER_04 8:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 8:30

That's almost half of eleven.

SPEAKER_04 8:33

It's true. It's true. Fine. I'm I'm an iPad kid. Sorry, my air conditioner is crackling.

SPEAKER_03 8:39

Tell them about your air conditioner. Tell everybody about it.

SPEAKER_04 8:42

Okay, so there's not a real air conditioner in here. So today I put a bucket of ice in front of the fans that we use to cool off. So old school 19th century air conditioner.

SPEAKER_03 8:52

I can't believe what a difference it makes.

SPEAKER_04 8:53

It does make a difference. It's good. But now the ice is like collapsing, so it's making some noises. Sounds like there's like a creature in here sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 9:02

Uh, what do you have to update everybody on?

SPEAKER_04 9:04

I don't know. I'm glad people enjoyed my digressions last week. Let me tell you, editing that was a trip.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

These are my digressions. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:17

It's not easy. I have mad respect for people that do radio by themselves. Yeah, like radio, the original. Doing it live.

SPEAKER_03 9:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:25

Crazy. I people that solo podcasts for two hours long.

SPEAKER_03 9:30

Yeah, I've never done that.

SPEAKER_04 9:31

No. And I get you write more down, and like you have to have like a lot of times you have a producer still that you can bounce off a little bit, but people that can rift riff for hours, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 9:42

I riff okay.

SPEAKER_04 9:44

I think it went okay, but for me it was a it's a slog.

SPEAKER_03 9:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:48

I had to really get into the topic. I haven't made any progress on my my digressions yet.

SPEAKER_03 9:53

It really surprises me that it's hard for you because I do feel like when you get talking, you can really go.

SPEAKER_04 10:00

I get self-conscious. I'm like, um, you've been talking a long time, buddy. You're monopolizing the conversation. And the problem is, like, that's not really possible by yourself, but I get to a point where I'm like, oh, red flag.

SPEAKER_03 10:13

That is something really interesting about talking with you on a podcast.

SPEAKER_04 10:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:18

Is you don't generally take a lot of accountability day to day. Not that sounds more negative than I, but you don't think about stuff, like you don't emotionally process stuff on your own, but when we're on the podcast, you do because there's something about the microphones that feel like uh accountability.

SPEAKER_04 10:38

Yeah, I have to talk. Like if I don't talk, this isn't any good. So I have to I can't internally process it all the same way. I have to externally process it.

SPEAKER_03 10:49

Do you think that you're internally processing though, or do you think that you're just not processing your avoidance?

SPEAKER_04 10:54

Um, I mean, I think my default processing is internal processing, and I think I'm relatively dissociated.

SPEAKER_03 11:02

So uh I'm bypassing the processing, but my my regular stuck at the processing, you're not bypassing it. You think you're making it past it?

SPEAKER_04 11:11

I don't know. I mean, not past it, sure. It's just it's stuck in the bypass mean. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 11:18

Word of the week, bypass B-Y-P-A-S-S, bypass.

SPEAKER_04 11:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:26

I thought you used it to pass by.

SPEAKER_04 11:28

That's a good, yeah, that's a pretty good definition of it. Uh to pass by something.

SPEAKER_03 11:32

Right.

SPEAKER_04 11:33

To go around. Yeah. I just meant like more I go, like, I'll avoid thinking about the action if I'm doing like I just won't not do a lot of processing. So but the podcast

Lindsay Clancy And Postpartum Illness

SPEAKER_04 11:45

is good for that.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

Okay, are you ready to dive into chronically online?

SPEAKER_04 11:48

Yeah, I'd love to hear Chronically Online.

SPEAKER_03 11:49

This week, Chronically Online. Anybody that's chronically online is talking about Lindsay Clancy.

SPEAKER_04 11:55

Lindsay. Oh, you've talked about this. Um it's the murder case. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 12:02

So Lindsay Clancy had three children in 2023. She was eight months postpartum, and she is being, she's on trial for strangling and killing her five, three, and eight month-old. And it has been really, you know, it's a big crime case. Oh, and then she um self-harmed in attempts to kill herself, people think, and then she supposedly, allegedly jumped out the window, and she is now paralyzed from the waist down. Well because it wasn't successful.

SPEAKER_04 12:37

Well, she didn't allegedly jump out the window then, right?

SPEAKER_03 12:40

She jumped. No, she allegedly jumped because we don't because the thing is.

SPEAKER_04 12:45

We're not sure that's how she got paralyzed? Or do we not know that she's paralyzed?

SPEAKER_03 12:49

We know that the fall from the window to the ground is what paralyzed her. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 12:53

We don't know if she jumped or was pushed? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:57

Or if because she doesn't remember any of it.

SPEAKER_04 13:00

Got it. Was someone there to push her? Is there no?

SPEAKER_03 13:04

There's an alibi for the husband that he wasn't there.

SPEAKER_04 13:08

Got it.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

And that's the thing. That's the chronically online. It's people are having a lot to say about are we sure?

SPEAKER_04 13:17

Theories of the case.

SPEAKER_03 13:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:18

Got it. So what are you learning?

SPEAKER_03 13:20

Um, well, I would say first and foremost, I'm learning that women are not taken seriously uh with their postpartum depression and postpartum problems. Uh, she had a nanny and she had family in town, like living with them part-time, and she didn't go back to work because she was struggling so much with her mental health. And I've seen a lot of commentary online from people being like, Well, she had all of that help. She had a nanny, she had family in town, she had this, she had that. She got way more help than most women get, and that she was still like couldn't get it together.

SPEAKER_04 13:56

But that's not the point of the city. No, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 13:58

But that's the thing that I've thought was really interesting is to me, that way of thinking and talking just reinforms that we have zero understanding of mental health one, postpartum moms two, yeah, uh, and just what that situationally means.

SPEAKER_04 14:21

Well, because there's a total distinction between chemical depression and feeling overwhelmed. Like those are different things, and I get how that can be conflated and often they're intertwined. Like, if you're depressed, you're gonna feel overwhelmed because you're not able to handle what you feel you should handle, whether or not you should or should not feel that way, totally different topic. But then there's the chemical side of it, like that doesn't change, even if you have help with getting this stuff done, it doesn't fix the underlying root issue. And obviously, I think people's experiences are gonna be shaded by the fact that when I had postpartum depression, I was I didn't have all this help. It's like, well, the help may not have fixed what you had going on.

SPEAKER_03 15:01

Well, and like when the husband got home, he stayed with her outside on the ground, he didn't go to find his children.

SPEAKER_04 15:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 15:09

He like assumed they were dead and like didn't go to look for them. He just stayed outside with her while they waited for emergency services to get there.

SPEAKER_04 15:20

Okay. It's not great.

SPEAKER_03 15:22

Can you imagine if you come home and I'm I have jumped off the roof and I'm like majorly injured, you're not gonna go look for our children?

SPEAKER_04 15:35

I probably would. I'm such a devil's advocate in terms of like I don't understand how you can even devil's advocate that. I just like what if you what if you have a feeling that that's true and you don't want to like witness that? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 15:50

You you're not gonna try and save your kids. You're not gonna try and make sure. You're not gonna. That's crazy. Like that is the most cowardice bullshit kind of like that's insane. I think that inherently makes you a bad parent.

SPEAKER_04 16:09

There's an argument there.

SPEAKER_03 16:11

You're worried about your own like over the state of your children. Yeah, that's crazy. We're not arguing, could this did this happen? Yeah. We're like, do you think a good parent, a healthy parent?

SPEAKER_04 16:28

Well, it doesn't sound like this was a healthy parenting situation.

SPEAKER_03 16:31

Well, that's that's kind of the whole thing.

SPEAKER_04 16:35

That's why it's been such a and so what are people's feelings on where guilt and responsibility is falling as opposed to.

SPEAKER_03 16:42

There's a lot of mixed feelings.

SPEAKER_04 16:43

Where is this? You said Massachusetts?

SPEAKER_03 16:45

I have no idea. Northeast. I think so. Right? Yeah, I'm not positive, but I think so. I have not done a ton of reading into the case because we have kids that are five, three, and one. Yeah, it's tough. I just I can't. I I can't uh get into it too much because it just and I think it was a daughter, son, son, maybe. Perfect. So just a perfect. I'm not positive. Perfect parallel to like, yeah, I just like I can't do it. Like some people have. I mean, I've I've been reading a few things here and there. Um, and there's been a lot of insight from moms about what postpartum depression is like and what struggling is like, and she had postpartum psychosis and she was on all these different medications, and um it's it's pretty I mean that stuff is hard, like it's pretty wild. Well, but they were changing her medications like every eight to ten days.

SPEAKER_04 17:39

That doesn't make any sense, or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 17:42

That's probably not quite right.

SPEAKER_04 17:43

That's so frequent because I feel like most of those medications are a like three to four week voting period.

SPEAKER_03 17:50

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 17:51

Wild. And so there's a lot of like he's and if you're in that much like distress, you probably need to be outpatient or impatient.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

Or um but he's already remarried with another child.

SPEAKER_04 18:05

Okay, that's extra and that I and this happened in 2023. Yeah, okay. Yikes, yikes, don't like that.

SPEAKER_03 18:16

He got married this past eight years.

SPEAKER_04 18:18

Bad look. So far, my impression based on of him is not great, based on just what I'm hearing. But wow, I don't know. If that was my situation, I wouldn't be married for like a decade.

SPEAKER_03 18:30

I don't think you'd get married again.

SPEAKER_04 18:31

I might never get married again. Might be like, that didn't work out for me. Not my bag, didn't nail it. Like, I just realistically knowing myself, I'd be like, well, that part of my life has passed me by. It's not accurate, it doesn't make any sense. But I would just like, yeah, nope, can't do that again. But yikes.

SPEAKER_03 18:55

So there's a lot of you know, people are doing their thing or they make theories and they some people as opposed to you that can't get too involved get exceedingly involved. Well, and tons of people are like, I think it was like people are going way on the other, and they're like, I think he did it, and I think he set her up, and I think this and that, and yeah, okay. I don't know, maybe, but like I I anyway, I just sometimes I think that that's really unhealthy the way that people don't let the system work. I understand that the system's so messed up though. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 19:28

People have an obsession with one, the truth, and the problem is the truth has to feel true to them. And the other part is a lot of people need to feel like they are uniquely suited or special or more um, they feel like if they can develop this conspiracy theory that makes sense, they have secret knowledge that makes them unique or elevated, or what is the word I'm looking for? Special makes them special. Having that theory, or that's why conspiracy theories are so appealing, is you're like, well, all these other sheeple don't get it.

SPEAKER_03 20:04

Well, and they I don't know, there's been a lot of feedback of she like took her oldest to the doctor that morning and then was outside like building a snowman with the kids that afternoon. Um and then she had a 15-minute period where he was gonna be out of the house and did all of this. Oh, like there's just a lot of it, it doesn't work.

SPEAKER_04 20:24

Yeah, the timeline doesn't work very well. No, for it to be uh it feels like there's more intent somewhere in the the process.

SPEAKER_03 20:32

It feels like there's a lot of missing pieces, which makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 20:37

Yeah, you're not dealing with stable people, right? Whether or not like the problem is then it's the job of the law to determine where intent falls and where the truth falls, and there's no way to know anyway.

SPEAKER_03 20:48

Well, he was gone a lot, like he was going to traveling for work and going on like trips with his buddies and stuff. Yeah, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 20:58

Do you have a girlfriend? Because it seems like he got married.

SPEAKER_03 21:00

That's what everybody says, because he moved to New York four months after that happened. Okay. He moved to New York for work. Yeah. And the woman that he ended up marrying is in New York. Which, you know, he moved here so that. But they were together pretty quickly after because they already like I believe that he has the kid already, even though they just got married this past April. I think the kid was already on the way born and everything. Like, yeah, I think that there is I should actually look that up.

SPEAKER_04 21:33

Yeah, well, I guess we could look it up. There are facts that are involved. I know our whole bit is not knowing the facts and just kind of spitballing it, but oh, they don't have a kid. No kid.

SPEAKER_03 21:43

See, this is what I mean.

SPEAKER_04 21:44

Like Yeah, yeah. Well, that changes a lot. The internet They've probably been talking about it like they have a kid.

SPEAKER_03 21:51

Oh, a hundred like people have said that, like I've seen all kinds of things like that, but I haven't Googled anything. That's this is the problem.

SPEAKER_04 21:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:58

Let's see.

SPEAKER_04 21:59

Is it from a previous? Like they don't have a kid together, but she has a kid, or is there just no kid? Just a mystery. I don't The Mandela effect. It's a Mandela baby.

SPEAKER_03 22:08

It's a Mandela baby. Yeah, it says no record of Patrick Clancy and Dr. Rachel Danis having a child together. She does not appear to have any children from past relationships either. What? She's a fertility doctor, though.

SPEAKER_04 22:22

What does that have to do with it?

SPEAKER_03 22:24

I am just wondering if that somehow has crossed hairs.

SPEAKER_04 22:28

She's like around kids? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:30

No, just that being her specialty, I wonder if that has crossed.

SPEAKER_04 22:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 22:34

They have a test tube baby.

SPEAKER_04 22:36

No, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

I don't think there are any hidden babies.

SPEAKER_04 22:40

Starting to sound like the national inquirer.

SPEAKER_03 22:41

But that's the thing, is lots of people have been like, well, he was married within the year. And I did look that up because I was like, okay, that's not true.

SPEAKER_04 22:48

Got it.

SPEAKER_03 22:49

They got married just this past April. Which still, to me, all of it's like a that's still very there's obviously some things.

SPEAKER_04 22:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:58

Some shady things amongst all of it, but it could just be really unhealthy relationship. And you know, clearly there were problems.

SPEAKER_04 23:06

Yeah, you're not dealing with clearly people that are well adjusted.

SPEAKER_03 23:10

Not at all.

SPEAKER_04 23:11

That have everything aligned well.

Idaho 4 And Conspiracy Brain

SPEAKER_03 23:13

The other thing that's been chronically online is the Idaho 4.

SPEAKER_04 23:16

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 23:17

Which is the murder of the four students in Idaho by that criminology scene.

SPEAKER_04 23:23

Yeah, and he was like headed across country, right?

SPEAKER_03 23:25

And that happened in the fall of 2022 across the country.

SPEAKER_04 23:29

Yeah, I think he like committed the murders and then started heading east. I don't know if he had family east. Like he tried to get far away from the scene of the crime.

SPEAKER_03 23:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 23:37

Again, a criminology student, so he was trying to. And then I think maybe his family turned him. I don't remember what it was.

SPEAKER_03 23:42

But I don't know. Anyway, that's also going on. So there's been a lot of big crime conversation recently.

SPEAKER_04 23:49

It's a true crime conversation.

SPEAKER_03 23:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:51

It's a true crime week, couple weeks, month. Yeah. I mean, just you've been it's been a couple weeks since you've been on the pod, so yeah, I don't remember how to do anything. You know how to do things, just you haven't had your your platform for a second.

SPEAKER_03 24:04

You're right, you're right, you're right.

SPEAKER_04 24:05

But chop it up.

SPEAKER_03 24:06

Um, okay. You uh you talk now.

The First Class Pricing Glitch

SPEAKER_04 24:10

Yeah. Well, I was gonna ask you how your travel's been.

SPEAKER_03 24:12

How my what?

SPEAKER_04 24:13

How travel was.

SPEAKER_03 24:14

Uh, it was great.

SPEAKER_04 24:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:16

I uh flew first class, which felt really fancy.

SPEAKER_04 24:21

Yeah, it was a $125 upgrade, round trip.

SPEAKER_03 24:24

No, it wasn't. No, round trip.

SPEAKER_04 24:27

Round trip. It was like seven.

SPEAKER_03 24:28

No, no, it wasn't. I had to think about it. No, that's what was crazy. And I want to give people the deets on this. So I had to buy a last minute flight. And to sit like the basic economy. Basic economy was X number of dollars. 500 bucks. And then to fly a main cabin so that like my bags are guaranteed or whatever it is, was like $700. And to fly first class was $630.

SPEAKER_04 24:57

Yeah. It was less expensive. It was economy plus was more expensive than first class.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 25:03

Which was wild.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

So I don't know what went wrong in their system, but I took advantage of it.

SPEAKER_04 25:07

You didn't. You did. Which I thought was great.

SPEAKER_03 25:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:11

Especially for a work trip where it's like it's a reimbursed expense. It was like, okay, cool.

SPEAKER_03 25:16

Well, it was cheaper.

SPEAKER_04 25:17

I know.

SPEAKER_03 25:17

It was cheaper to fly first class.

SPEAKER_04 25:19

Well, I think, yeah, because you had to check a bag. I bet for the cost of checking a bag, it was like two-thirds of the cost of going first class.

SPEAKER_03 25:25

It was so weird. It was only like basic economy was only $70 less than my first class ticket.

SPEAKER_04 25:30

Yeah. And you had to check a bag.

SPEAKER_03 25:32

And I had to check a bag.

SPEAKER_04 25:33

So that would have wiped out most of that.

SPEAKER_03 25:35

So weird. It's great. Yeah. I don't know what went wrong or why it was like that. There had to have been a glitch or an error or something, but it didn't. It looks like it was.

SPEAKER_04 25:43

Was it just not very booked? Like, was there not many people in first class?

SPEAKER_03 25:45

No. I mean, it was full.

SPEAKER_04 25:47

It was full because they moved people up. Oh.

SPEAKER_03 25:50

So I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 25:51

My guess is they just didn't have it well booked. So there was a lot of availability.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

On my way out, there were only two people on the upgrade list. And only one person made it, which means there was only one seat that wasn't already upgraded into prior to bought their own upgrade.

SPEAKER_04 26:06

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:07

I don't know. I don't know how any of that works. It blew my mind, but it was a longer flight. And it wasn't long, but for two hours, two and a half. The thing about domestic travel from the center of the United States is it's never the longest flight is three and a half.

SPEAKER_04 26:21

You can't make a five-hour flight from the middle of the United States unless you connect. I guess you could connect in Atlanta and then fly to wherever, but or the other way around. But yeah, still not gonna happen. We almost always connect out of Dallas, which is still the middle of the country.

SPEAKER_03 26:35

I didn't have a connection though. It was a straight flight, but anyway. Just blew my mind.

SPEAKER_04 26:40

I know.

SPEAKER_03 26:41

And I got to experience the high life of first class. I slept most of the way.

SPEAKER_04 26:46

I was gonna say, did you get any drinks or anything?

SPEAKER_03 26:48

No, I didn't even get water because I took my water bottle. That's so I don't ask for water, and then on the way there, it was early, and I didn't really feel like you know, crushing a sodi pop or anything.

SPEAKER_04 27:04

I always get a diet coke on the flight.

SPEAKER_03 27:06

Yeah, well, on the way back I planned too, and then I slept through service.

SPEAKER_04 27:10

You needed to sleep.

SPEAKER_03 27:11

You had to I was so tired. I was.

SPEAKER_04 27:13

You had your hotel room and you just weren't sleeping at night. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 27:17

I did not sleep well. I don't stay without you very often.

SPEAKER_04 27:21

Yeah, that's fair.

SPEAKER_03 27:22

And I don't, I don't know. I guess I I I don't really think about it because I stay plenty with friends and stuff when we go on girls' trips.

SPEAKER_04 27:30

Especially your work trips lately have been with other people.

SPEAKER_03 27:32

Yeah, but I really it was weird. I really was excited. I thought I was gonna get some really good uh restorative sleep.

SPEAKER_04 27:41

I thought so too. And then I talked to you the next day, you're like, I slept like three hours, I'm dying.

SPEAKER_03 27:46

I slept well, and it's not even that I was up late doing something, I just could not sleep.

SPEAKER_04 27:52

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 27:53

I think the first night I was anxious because I didn't know what to expect. I was gonna do something new the next day, and I just wasn't nervous about all of that. But I thought for sure that I would crash the next day, crash the next night. Nope. No, I didn't.

SPEAKER_04 28:08

I don't know what that is. But I guess even when you travel for photography, you had a second shooter most of the time.

SPEAKER_03 28:14

Yeah, I still stayed by myself a lot.

SPEAKER_04 28:16

Yeah, but you were with somebody like that you had you were never like solo. This was a true solo trip, and you don't have a ton of those. Yeah, where you go somewhere completely not to visit somebody, not for like I did a lot of work trips where it was just me.

SPEAKER_03 28:31

I didn't feel any kind of way about it, I don't think.

SPEAKER_04 28:34

You're just not used to it. No, whereas I was like work trips solo.

SPEAKER_03 28:38

I was stressed the second night about not waking up for my flight, which it wasn't that early, was it? It wasn't early, but I didn't have anybody to check in, like it was just me.

SPEAKER_04 28:48

And it was so busy the way in, right?

SPEAKER_03 28:51

Yeah, yeah, and so I was just kind of like, ooh, and my body overcompensated clearly.

Caffeine Drinks And Restocking Life

SPEAKER_03 28:59

What are you drinking today? We didn't even talk about it.

SPEAKER_04 29:01

I have uh this is an Alani packet. We still have some Alani packets around, so gets a little more water, same amount of caffeine, but it dilutes it a little bit. The cherry lime is really good. If you like the cherry lime a lani flavor, the cherry lime packets are really they're where it's at.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

I don't like it.

SPEAKER_04 29:16

I know you don't, but if you do, if someone out there does, I vouch for the cherry lime packets. Some of the other ones are just okay, they're good, but it it holds its flavor well, so you get 20 ounces of flavor without like having to drink 500 milligrams of caffeine.

SPEAKER_03 29:31

Really become a bloom girl.

SPEAKER_04 29:33

Yeah, you have, you've pivoted.

SPEAKER_03 29:35

Apple bloom crisp apple. Yeah, it I don't really care for the other flavors that much. They're fine, like none of them are bad. Like, if I really needed caffeine, I could drink any of them. But that crisp apple, I am on board. Yeah, that's my fall flavor of choice.

SPEAKER_04 29:53

Okay, we'll we'll keep them coming. That's what we'll try and keep in stock. We have to restock everything between you traveling and all that stuff, and then we had people over on Saturday, we are wiped out of uh food.

SPEAKER_03 30:06

Yeah, every single drink in our fridge is gone.

SPEAKER_04 30:08

Which people are welcome to it. It's always an open fridge, but we're like, uh oh.

Hosting Friends And The Ambivert Debate

SPEAKER_03 30:13

What are your thoughts on keeping a stocked fridge for guests?

SPEAKER_04 30:16

For guests? I'm okay with it. Like, what when you ask, what are my thoughts? What are what uh with regard to what?

SPEAKER_03 30:24

I just feel like sometimes people act like I'm weird that I like I keep our fridge fully stocked with a whole variety of drinks, and anybody that walks into our house, I'm like, you are welcome to anything in there at any time.

SPEAKER_04 30:38

Like, I would feel some way if like someone abused it, they were like taking drinks home with them, and I'm like, oh, we're just subsidizing your your drinks, but I'm I'm good with people. I like people feeling welcome in our home.

SPEAKER_03 30:52

Me too.

SPEAKER_04 30:52

You've made a really conscious effort to like take on this hosting thing, and I I like that. I like having people around. It's it does not bother me. For someone as who likes personal space, I like having a space that's mine, but I don't mind having people around. Yeah, having people around is good with me. It uh I don't know what it does for me, but you and I are both that way.

SPEAKER_03 31:14

Like, I think that both of us are really okay being the house that everybody I think it keeps me a little more on, and I like feeling on.

SPEAKER_04 31:22

Like it doesn't bother me, it's not fatiguing, and so I'm not a true extrovert, I'm not a true introvert either, though. Like uh it's an ambivert, I think, is what they described as.

SPEAKER_03 31:33

Ambivert.

SPEAKER_04 31:34

Yeah. Ambi, amni, ambivert.

SPEAKER_03 31:38

Amber. Word of the week.

SPEAKER_04 31:41

Word of the week. Not actually, I have a good word of the week, but no, word of the week was bypassed. Well, I think we got that one pretty well done.

SPEAKER_03 31:49

Ambivert?

SPEAKER_04 31:51

Ambiverton? Am like ambidextrous.

SPEAKER_03 31:54

Am Ambivert.

SPEAKER_04 31:55

Ambivert.

SPEAKER_03 31:56

Well, let's look up the pronunciation.

SPEAKER_04 31:59

Does it kind of feel like a cop out to be an ambivert? You're like, no, I'm not an extrovert, I'm not an introvert, I'm just a vert. Just a vert. I like that.

SPEAKER_03 32:06

Ambivert. Ambivert.

SPEAKER_04 32:08

Ambiverton.

SPEAKER_03 32:09

Ambivert.

SPEAKER_04 32:10

How does it define it? Uh because I would love to know if there's like criteria.

SPEAKER_03 32:15

A person who has a balance of both introverted and extroverted traits. They sit in the middle of the personality spectrum, meaning they can enjoy social activities and crowds, but they also need quiet time alone to rest and recharge. I do think that you charge both ways. And I also think you drain both ways.

SPEAKER_04 32:31

Yeah, it's so person dependent. It feels a little bit like a cop-out because everything is a range, like everything's a spectrum. But I do like I fall very in the middle in terms of in the right social environment, I'm up. Like that's where I'm getting energy from. The wrong social environment, I'm like, I I gotta wind down. Maybe it's just that I need sleep. Maybe I'm an underslept extrovert.

SPEAKER_03 32:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:58

That could be some of it.

SPEAKER_03 33:00

I sometimes think you're kind of an extrovert. Like, I I I don't think that you dislike. No, let me think about this. I don't think you actually like time by yourself that much. I think that you like the freedom from perception.

SPEAKER_04 33:17

That's 100% it.

SPEAKER_03 33:19

And I don't think that's the same as liking to be alone.

SPEAKER_04 33:23

Yeah. It's just really hard to not be perceived when there's other people around.

SPEAKER_03 33:26

Absolutely. And I don't want to diminish that part of you, but I think that if you healed your relationship with perception and being perceived, I think you would have a tendency to always lean into Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:38

I'm always down to go to the thing.

SPEAKER_03 33:39

Which makes me think that you're extroverted more than introverted.

SPEAKER_04 33:43

Yeah. I like I I would say I lean that way.

SPEAKER_03 33:46

Because I really don't ever see alone time charging you.

SPEAKER_04 33:49

I'm not, well, again, like I don't sleep, I don't do the things that would recharge me.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

Right.

SPEAKER_04 33:55

If if alone time is recharging me, it's going to work out. It's throwing myself into a project or I have to be doing.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

Right.

SPEAKER_04 34:03

And I don't think that necessarily falls strictly under a recharge sort of.

SPEAKER_03 34:08

No, I think after this discussion, I think you're an extrovert.

SPEAKER_04 34:12

Yeah. I would I again, if I had to lean one way, I would say that's it.

SPEAKER_03 34:15

Which is really interesting because you come from a double introvert household.

SPEAKER_04 34:19

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:20

And I come from Maybe.

SPEAKER_04 34:22

Maybe they're just not good at being extrovert.

SPEAKER_03 34:24

They're both introverts.

SPEAKER_04 34:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 34:26

Uh I like no shot, are either of your parents an extrovert. I would be floored to hear either of them describe themselves as an extrovert.

SPEAKER_04 34:35

As getting energy from other people, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:37

Would you would No, that would be very surprising. Yeah. Uh they don't like big social settings, you know. Yeah. I can't even think of a time that they've done big social settings, other than maybe like Silver Dollar City.

SPEAKER_04 34:50

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:51

Like there aren't parties, there aren't, you know.

SPEAKER_04 34:54

No.

unknown 34:54

No.

SPEAKER_03 34:55

Not like we're going to the fireworks with, you know, that they're doing at the local the concert series and stuff they do.

SPEAKER_04 35:01

Oh, yeah, that's true. Like they've gotten that's been a fun part of them moving here.

SPEAKER_03 35:05

And I don't mean any of it negatively, to be clear. I just I would label both of them as introverts. Both my parents are extroverts.

SPEAKER_04 35:12

Yeah, that's fair. You really didn't know another way.

SPEAKER_03 35:16

And so I feel like usually there's a balance, kind of a little bit of both.

SPEAKER_04 35:20

I'm acting out. I'm pushing against, raging against the machine. That's not what that's intended to mean at all. But the machine in my household.

SPEAKER_03 35:29

But I think that's so interesting.

SPEAKER_04 35:31

And my brother's not that way. My brother doesn't he's an introvert.

SPEAKER_03 35:35

Yeah. But he also likes to socialize.

SPEAKER_04 35:38

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:39

I I just um Which being an introvert doesn't mean you don't like to socialize.

SPEAKER_04 35:44

No, not at all. A lot of times introverts they just need like a very specific they want a small group of people they're comfortable with. And I prefer I think everybody prefers that, but I I love a crowd too. But I think something in a crowd makes me feel less perceived. When I'm in a concert, I don't feel individually perceived. I feel like I'm a part of a big thing.

SPEAKER_03 36:04

I'm kind of surprised that doing this job isn't your worst nightmare.

SPEAKER_04 36:08

I have a hard time conceptualizing people on the internet is real.

SPEAKER_03 36:11

Out of sight, out of mind, and I can't see people on the You don't feel like it makes you be perceived in a public setting.

SPEAKER_04 36:18

I struggle with my own perception more than I struggle with other people's perception. If I feel okay with my own perception of myself, I I'm okay. It's when I struggle with my own perception, and then I have to put it out in the public and I don't feel good about it.

SPEAKER_03 36:31

Got it. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 36:33

It's um it's one of my wounds from being a child, is I'm very growing up without a ton of positive or negative enforcement, like reinforcement meant that all my reinforcement came internally. And so when I'm feeling good, that's great. Nothing can shake me. When I'm feeling bad, nothing can make me feel better. And so the external sources don't help the same way. But it when it comes to social media, I think that's mostly an asset. It means I don't get gassed up quite the same way, but it also means when people feel some kind of way about me, I'm like, well, okay.

SPEAKER_03 37:08

It doesn't bother you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:09

If if I feel good about myself, if it's a sensitivity, I'm like, oh, I get it. Yeah, that guy sucks.

SPEAKER_03 37:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:15

So it's a weird, interesting, weird spot.

SPEAKER_03 37:18

Okay. Give me a word of

Word Of The Week And Small Talk Hate

SPEAKER_03 37:20

the week.

SPEAKER_04 37:20

Word of the week.

SPEAKER_03 37:21

Word of the week. Chow, chow.

SPEAKER_04 37:23

We're going to another week. It's another.

SPEAKER_03 37:30

Ambivert. Why gosh?

SPEAKER_04 37:32

Ambivert.

SPEAKER_03 37:32

Ambivert Ambivert.

SPEAKER_04 37:35

You said it.

SPEAKER_03 37:35

You keep saying it and then looking at me like bypass. Word of the week. Word of the week. Chow, chow. Take it away.

SPEAKER_04 37:43

I keep, I was gonna say, I keep interrupting your song, and I was like, I don't know if there's another verse coming or what's happening. Poltron.

SPEAKER_02 37:49

Poltron.

SPEAKER_04 37:50

Poltron.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

Like pantaloon? Poltron?

SPEAKER_04 37:54

Yeah, it's got it's got a lot of those same letters.

SPEAKER_02 37:57

I had paltron pantaloons. No.

SPEAKER_04 38:01

Definition. An utter coward, a spiritless bass wretch. You can tell it's old.

SPEAKER_02 38:07

They're my paltoon.

SPEAKER_04 38:09

A poltrun.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

Poltron pantaloon.

SPEAKER_04 38:13

A coward.

SPEAKER_03 38:13

My cowardly pantaloon.

SPEAKER_04 38:15

Kind of seems like this guy in the murder case, kind of a poltron.

SPEAKER_03 38:18

A poltron. Do people use that?

SPEAKER_04 38:21

I mean, I think they did 200 years ago.

SPEAKER_03 38:24

Poltron. You're a poltron.

SPEAKER_04 38:28

Yeah, it's yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:29

I don't, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_04 38:30

It's like using fliberty gibbet.

SPEAKER_03 38:32

It doesn't see that though, rolls off the tongue. Flipperty gibbet? Yeah. Yeah. Flippy gibbet. But poltron, like polltrune isn't satisfying to call somebody that. Do you feel satisfied to be like, you're a poll troon?

SPEAKER_04 38:45

No, it feels like it's more like you're showing off your own. You're a pontoon. Like what would that say about somebody if they were a pontoon?

SPEAKER_03 38:54

Uh steady. Steady great time.

SPEAKER_04 38:57

Party.

SPEAKER_03 38:58

Reliable.

SPEAKER_04 38:59

Slow.

SPEAKER_03 39:00

They're not that slow. You're not gonna go skiing, but you can though.

SPEAKER_04 39:05

It depends on how it's just not a very exciting ski.

SPEAKER_03 39:08

Depends on how I hope you like to go straight. Pull truon, your pontoon is.

SPEAKER_04 39:14

You're just absolutely ruining this word. It's fine. Pull truon, yeah. Pull truon. Do you want to know what Fliberty Gibbet means?

SPEAKER_02 39:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:23

You know where I learned that? It's where? Stronghold crusader.

SPEAKER_02 39:27

I don't know what that is.

SPEAKER_04 39:28

Like Age of Empires, like the game on competitor. You don't know what Age of Empires is? Good God. Stronghold Crusader, you built like a castle.

SPEAKER_03 39:37

And then is it like roller coaster tycoon, but castles?

SPEAKER_04 39:40

But you built a castle, yes.

SPEAKER_03 39:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 39:42

Yeah. Age of Empires is like you built an empire.

SPEAKER_03 39:45

And that's like a fliberty gibbet?

SPEAKER_04 39:46

Fliberty Gibbet is a silly, flighty, and overly talkative person who chatters and constantly lacks seriousness.

SPEAKER_03 39:53

I think I can be a little bit of a flippy gibbet.

SPEAKER_04 39:55

You've got some fliberty gibbet in you.

SPEAKER_03 39:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:57

For sure.

SPEAKER_03 39:58

Although, here's the thing: I love to have a serious talk.

SPEAKER_04 40:02

You do. You're not a small talker.

SPEAKER_03 40:04

I do not tip right over the small talk. I'm like, so what's your deepest, darkest secret?

SPEAKER_04 40:11

You don't want to talk about the weather.

SPEAKER_03 40:12

So what parts of your childhood do you hate?

SPEAKER_04 40:14

Mm-hmm. Yeah. How's your relationship with your parents?

SPEAKER_03 40:17

How's your relationship with your parents? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:21

I get that. I struggle with small talk.

SPEAKER_03 40:23

I can do it. I don't struggle with it. I just don't, it's not what I'm gonna choose.

SPEAKER_04 40:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:29

If I can break us out of it, I'm going to.

SPEAKER_04 40:31

I'm not good at pushing out of it. I tend to just roll, but it's not where I thrive.

SPEAKER_03 40:37

That's how I end up friends with so many really introverted people that people are like, how did you break in with them? Because they don't really like they were hard, they were a hard nut to crack.

SPEAKER_04 40:46

I refuse to just talk to them about nothing.

SPEAKER_03 40:49

Oh, I will ask questions until the cows go.

SPEAKER_04 40:52

That's a skill. That's a good skill.

SPEAKER_03 40:54

I like I can I can pry. It's not about trying to pry though. It's just trying to oh, it's just about trying to understand people.

SPEAKER_04 41:02

Yeah. You just truly not a small talker. You get bored.

SPEAKER_03 41:06

I get bored.

SPEAKER_04 41:07

You'll check out. I've seen you check out of a small talk conversation. Like you're just like, oh okay. Like if somebody's like really because sometimes people don't want to go somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:19

And if they're really forcing the small talk, you're like, sure.

SPEAKER_03 41:23

Yeah, I just exit mentally.

SPEAKER_04 41:26

Like you you don't like get then.

SPEAKER_03 41:28

I end up being kind of flippy gibbet.

SPEAKER_04 41:29

Yeah. Yeah, you'll flibberty gibbet, then yeah. You'll just fill it. You're like, I guess I will talk about stuff.

SPEAKER_03 41:35

Yeah. Do we have an email, a text message, a voice mail?

SPEAKER_04 41:39

Uh I appreciate some of you guys. You were like, hey, your episode was not total garbage, which was good. That felt nice. But yeah, we have a few more.

SPEAKER_03 41:48

The ultimate compliment of it wasn't garbage.

SPEAKER_04 41:51

Well, I think they said nice things, and I interpret it as that's not garbage. Again, I don't take outside reinforcement well. Oh, this is a long one. Um, your turn.

SPEAKER_03 42:01

Oh,

Infertility Support And Asking Clearly

SPEAKER_03 42:02

okay. Hey Joe and Matt, having some friend trouble that I would like your opinion on. I'm a person that tries to be a villager for my friends, dropping off coffee on their first day back to work for maternity leave, checking in on events on their life, grabbing things from the store when they or their kids are sick, dropping everything I'm going to do to be with them on a hard day, being very intentional about texting them on bigger days and knowing when they need support. I don't do these things to get something in return. This really is how I show my love. However, I am going through a rough time of infertility, and I'm finding that my friends don't give that love slash support back. I know infertility is a sensitive topic that they may feel uncomfortable bringing up and they don't know how to support me, but I might get a good luck when I mention I'm going to an appointment, or not even a response from other friends. I know they have lives, families, and their own worries and whatnot, but I'm getting to be very hurt by it. These are the friends that I checked on constantly through pregnancies, new jobs, divorce, kids, illnesses, and all of life. I've never brought it up because I do feel selfish saying that they didn't check on me or follow up. But this is also a very difficult time in my life and even more difficult without what should be my support system of friends. How can I go about this that isn't accusatory or selfish? Well, I would say instead of starting by telling people that what they've done wrong, start telling people what they could do. I think the the initial reach out is, hey, I know you guys know that I've been struggling with infertility, but I've realized going through this that I this is a season where I need more support than I've needed in the past. And I just wanted to throw it out there that it would really help if you all could XYZ one um send affirming words, two spend time with me or check in about spending time with me. Three, you know, help me figure out meals for Tuesdays. I don't know. Like, yeah, um I think that's constructive. Like I think that's that's usually a good start. And then because a lot of people they just don't know. You're right, people do have their own lives, they are busy and sure. In our Dream world, like people can see how we're feeling and you know, do XYZ, and that's not always the case. And I think being able to directly ask and to be able to check in and see where people are available is the first step. Now, if you do that and people don't, you know, pick up from there, that's a different conversation.

SPEAKER_04 44:23

I'm sure it's hard being the friend that is that person though, and you're not getting it in return. Like it just that's gonna suck. You I mean, you've had that experience with things, and you very much are like, I do what I do this because it would feel good to me, and that's what I hope people will do in return. And again, you've um you show up for a lot of people, but then it's a lot of times people that don't that aren't geared that same way. Not that they're unwilling to, but you do have to be more direct. And so that's I think that's a really good constructive. Like, hey, if you want this to change, you're probably gonna have to do this uncomfortable thing of just telling someone how you feel, yeah, asking for it, and it's not gonna feel organic in the same way, but you will that's how you'll get the most benefit out of it. Like that's the best path forward. But it is that's infertility is a hard one too, especially like it seems like your friends have kids, and that's not been their journey necessarily, and it's one that people struggle to relate to.

SPEAKER_03 45:24

Well, everybody wants it handled so differently because we all are such individuals, and I think that that sometimes takes over communication.

SPEAKER_04 45:35

Well, we have friends that don't want to talk about it or don't want to talk about it with most people.

SPEAKER_01 45:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:40

And that's some of it too, is they might be willing to talk about it in depth with a few trusted people, but they don't want to talk about it publicly, or it's sensitive to bring up publicly. Some people are more than willing to talk about it and want to have that conversation and feel more normalized by having those talks. And so it's hard to know as the person that doesn't have that experience where to fall on that. And so unfortunately, it ends up being more on you in terms of clearing the air. And maybe you've already done that and it's just uh not going the way that you would hope. But it's it's a tough one because even just having a kid, you can feel a little bit guilt, like you shouldn't feel guilty, but you feel some kind of way that that's not something you can you can empathize with, but maybe not relate directly. And it's clear you can't relate, you can't pretend that like that that hasn't been our experience. And we try to stay very sensitive and like have good conversations with people, but we also can't pretend like oh we totally get it. Because we can't. Like we don't have that same. There's so much tied into it that goes into feeling about yourself, whether or not it's just uh it's a weird thing. Kids, not kids. Fertility. I don't like the word fertility, it's weird.

SPEAKER_03 47:02

Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 47:03

It feels like very clinical-ish, and I just don't like talking about people that way. I feel like I'm like science experiments. The viability.

SPEAKER_03 47:11

I don't feel that way, but I get what you're saying.

SPEAKER_04 47:14

It just throws me a little bit. It's not something I feel strongly about. Just when I keep saying it, I'm like, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 47:19

What else we got?

SPEAKER_04 47:21

All right, let's find another one. Good luck to you. We appreciate you. Oh, somebody has a very specific question

Candy Crush And Outcome Brain

SPEAKER_04 47:29

for you.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 47:30

Joe, I had no idea you were a candy crush fanatic. I thought I was alone. It's been my go-to guilty pleasure since high school. So curious what level you're at.

SPEAKER_03 47:37

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_04 47:38

Um my dad's a candy crusher.

SPEAKER_03 47:41

Well, that's how I got on it. Yeah. I sat next to him on a flight and like I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 47:45

My dad. Oh. My dad's a true iPad kid. He plays like iPad games.

SPEAKER_03 47:50

Why why can't I find Candy Crush? Yeah, I sat next to your dad on a flight in 2017. I have no idea.

SPEAKER_04 47:57

Is that long ago? Yeah. I guess so, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:00

You've been doing this for nearly a decade.

SPEAKER_03 48:02

Yes. I bet it tells me.

SPEAKER_04 48:05

Maybe they hide it from you.

SPEAKER_03 48:07

I'm glad that they hide the total I've spent. Uh let's see.

SPEAKER_04 48:12

It's over a long time though. You break it up per year.

SPEAKER_03 48:16

I'm on level 5,882. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 48:19

I don't know what that means. Seems like a lot.

SPEAKER_03 48:21

I don't think that's that good.

SPEAKER_04 48:23

No, it's not a flex.

SPEAKER_03 48:25

Let's see. Settings. Account and help. Oh, I don't want to delete my account. Oh, it doesn't tell me anything. Yeah, I think it was 2017. We weren't engaged yet, though.

SPEAKER_04 48:36

Yeah. So. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_03 48:40

Yeah, I level 5,882. What?

SPEAKER_04 48:45

That's I'm laughing at the time. I don't know anything about the levels. I don't know if that's good, if it's bad.

SPEAKER_03 48:49

I love Candy Crush.

SPEAKER_04 48:50

I think at a certain point how many levels you're in probably speaks to like how much money you've spent.

SPEAKER_03 48:55

I don't know if that's true because if you continue to be stuck at them for a long time, that you'll like get got it. They're like they're like, here's a bonus. Here's a because they want to keep you playing.

SPEAKER_04 49:06

Yeah. They don't want you to be like, this game sucks and I'm done with it.

SPEAKER_03 49:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:09

Got it. It's almost like they know what they're doing. I don't know if I have a game like that. I struggle with a game that doesn't have any kind of end. The perpetual grind.

SPEAKER_03 49:18

Well, I'm sure that it does have an end if you could beat the levels fast enough.

SPEAKER_04 49:22

Do you think it does? I feel like they would just make more levels.

SPEAKER_03 49:25

Well, they will make more levels, but I'm saying like you could catch up to where the levels are built out to.

SPEAKER_04 49:31

Do you get some do you like do you get something more out of it? Like are you building a character? Are you is there any end game or is it just the experience?

SPEAKER_03 49:39

I mean, I'm beating the levels. Just the experience of the mini games in here of like But like how do you signal you're good at the game?

SPEAKER_04 49:47

Like how do you like what to other people? I don't know. Like, how do you how do you feel like that? Does that feel good?

SPEAKER_03 49:55

Sure. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 49:56

I don't I'm when I said that it felt very pointed. Like, does that feel good to you? Not how I meant it at all. I'm just like, does is that I don't know gratifying? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 50:04

Yeah, I I have a ball.

SPEAKER_04 50:06

I think you just like the experience of doing the game, and I think that's enough for you.

SPEAKER_03 50:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:09

I struggle with I'm uh a little outcome-based, or like I want some.

SPEAKER_03 50:15

When you beat the level, a bunch of candies explode and it vibrates a bunch.

SPEAKER_04 50:19

Again, I think that is enough for you, and that's good. Like that's a healthier mindset than mine. Mine is like, what is the goal? Which for somebody who's not goal-oriented is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_03 50:29

But what's the goal of Wordle every day?

SPEAKER_04 50:32

Uh, I like to get it in as few as possible. I compare how that does to the average. I feel good if I'm gonna go.

SPEAKER_03 50:38

Yours is a way to compare two people and feel better than them. Yeah. Oh, yeah, no, mine's just because I like all the pretty colors.

SPEAKER_04 50:47

You're a true love of the game, girl. Yeah. I'm like, again, we've seen our our daughters like this. She's like, Am I good? Am I bad? I'm like, oh, damn it. Sorry, kid. I know where that comes from. How do I rate? Are you falling asleep?

SPEAKER_03 51:04

I am falling asleep. I am so tired.

SPEAKER_04 51:07

Good grief.

SPEAKER_03 51:09

So tired.

SPEAKER_04 51:10

Okay, we'll go to our next one.

SPEAKER_00 51:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 51:12

All right, we have a voicemail.

One Kid Or Another Without A Sign

SPEAKER_00 51:14

Hey, Joe and Matt. Um, kind of uh probably a personal question. So if you don't have an answer, that's okay. But I had a baby, he's almost 14 months old. And when my husband and I had gotten together, neither of us ever thought we would only have one kid. I don't know why we thought that, but in our brains there was always more than one. Fast forward to our 14 month old, and I feel like we're both at this really road crossroads where we never imagined only having one kid, and there's nothing in our guts really saying that we're done, but there's also really nothing in our gut saying we should have another. And I know your guys' you guys always like to have more facts, but obviously there's a time cringe. But um I just think every little human that gets made is a miracle, and every little human that comes out into the world okay is a miracle. And we were really fortunate enough to have a healthy son. Um, and so I'm just wondering deep down, did you guys always know after having G that there would be more? Or how did you guys kind of go about making that decision? Did something pull you one way or another? Um, I just feel unsure, and not because I'm scared to do it again, but just unsure because I don't have a strong inkling either way and don't know if I'm the only one that feels that way. Thanks in advance and have a good day.

SPEAKER_03 52:42

You're not the only person that feels that way. And also you're only 14 months postpartum, and so you're still really fresh in it. Like even if you got pregnant right this second, you're talking about kids that are two years apart. That is so close together. So close together. Uh, your body really needs a full, I think what they say, two years minimum to recover. And so you're not even in a season where you need to be feeling some kind of way about that. Now, me, I'm overcompensating for my own feelings about family and childhood and the way that my family dynamics have impacted me as an individual. It doesn't mean that I'm necessarily actually solving these problems. My kids will still have problems, and their problems might be their siblings, and maybe they could even have the same problems that I've had, but they will at least have the option of having had a sibling. Does that sure? Like, I am my mom's only child. That means I am the only child of a chronically ill parent that was diagnosed when I was three, almost four. A lot of my childhood um circled around those health problems. A lot of my childhood revolved around grown-up things because there was only one kid. And so it was easy to bring one kid into the world of the grown-ups. It's a lot harder to, as one kid, to convince both grown-ups to enter in the world of childhood. And it's not that way for everybody. I know plenty of parents of singletons that it's a non-issue. They have one child and they do all the magic and it's still very childhood driven and all those things. I often say to parents who are choosing to only have one, the only feedback that I have when they ask me, like, well, what was it like being your mom's only and like being the only child in the house? The feedback I often give is, and this is no guarantee because you're not guaranteed to have a relationship with a sibling. However, when something happens to your parents, it is then on your shoulders and you don't have somebody to carry that with. And even if you don't have a relationship, something that I've realized watching people go through it, even who don't like their siblings, they then blame stuff at least on like there's still a dynamic.

SPEAKER_04 55:01

Yeah, there's still a dynamic of siblings there, and it's not that I envy it always, it's not that well, it can be an outlet, and you're like, Well, I'm taking it seriously, and so and so just doesn't get it or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 55:14

Yes, like there really is that piece, and I really look at it as your siblings are the only people you have that are with you in every single they knew your parents at the same time you did in the same ages that you did. You are going through everything together, you know.

SPEAKER_04 55:30

They're one of the few witnesses to that portion of your life that aren't your parents, right?

SPEAKER_03 55:35

So and they'll be who you have after your parents are gone, too. Yeah, um, hopefully, yeah, and so I all that to say, because of my own stuff, I my biggest fear after having G was not having another child. Like it, I was trying to get pregnant the moment that I could because I was just fixated on I I need her to have a sibling. Again, I don't know that that's gonna fix the problems. I'm not saying that that's not yours, no, definitely not mine. But I just I was so determined that she would not experience the things that I did, and she might still, yeah, but it won't be due to that, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:21

You can still feel lonely with siblings and like there's lots of things that can you can be over parentified as the oldest daughter. I think that's pretty common.

SPEAKER_03 56:29

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 56:31

Um, yeah. I I also would say if you don't feel the strong need to, there's no you can have a perfectly healthy, dynamic, yes, and intentional. And like it's much more I think you're much better off. You're clearly being intentional, you're being thoughtful, you're considering this, and so you can do a great job with one kid and having well, and I just also think you're still so close. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:57

Like I think give it some real thought another two years down the road.

SPEAKER_04 57:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:03

So much is gonna happen. And your child also might get to an age where they're asking about a sibling.

SPEAKER_04 57:10

Uh most likely.

SPEAKER_03 57:11

Maybe that will weigh into what you want to do too. Like, I just I don't think you need to stress about it yet. I think that if you're content that if this is what it is, I I have felt that way at every part of our lives, though, even with the one, I knew that I wanted a second because I was trying to compensate for my own.

SPEAKER_04 57:30

Yeah, you weren't lying to yourself about that. No, I never have been. This is why I'm doing it.

SPEAKER_03 57:35

And I I never have been. I have always known, like, if for some reason we wouldn't have been able to have more XYZ, I would have your baggage. I yeah, I would have known that it would all be okay. Because even when it was just Matt and me, I felt really content and felt like a family. When we added one, I felt really content, two, and now that we have three, I still like our family feels complete to me. I don't know that that means I'm done. I don't mean I I don't know that it doesn't mean um I'm done. Did I say that right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:10

I mean it it works either way. You don't know if you're done, you don't know if you're not done.

SPEAKER_03 58:13

And I just think it's a no pressure situation. I think you just let things happen.

SPEAKER_04 58:20

Yeah. I um like if you don't know, there's no reason you have to commit to something. I think you're better off airing on the side of I'm good where I'm at. When it comes to kids, like sometimes there's times in life where jumping into the unknown is gonna serve you more than not. But if you're not feeling a strong pull or a need and you feel complete as it is, you again, you just always had that. We from the very start of having kids, you're like, I mean, your your first was like, I want four TBD on whether that's where we're at.

SPEAKER_03 58:51

I've always said that, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:52

That's always been your ideal. You've always reserved the right to audible pivot out of it, but that's been the the thought. And so always reevaluate, but you knew going in. I didn't have a concrete vision of what my family would be. I didn't think I'd be married till 30. I didn't think I'd have kids till I was mid-30s. And so having kids in my late 20s, 30.

SPEAKER_03 59:19

You were 29 when did you born?

SPEAKER_04 59:21

Yeah, late 20s.

SPEAKER_03 59:22

Well, not quite, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 59:24

Right before, yeah, almost. So that all felt kind of foreign to me. But I didn't, you know, I was I was open to it. It's always been a conversation of like, uh, do I think I can handle it? And great. If I can't, we'll have that conversation. But it's always been a willing, willing to take a leap of faith. But because I don't have a concrete vision of what it looks like, I I don't have a concrete vision of what it doesn't look like either. So it's um unfortunately it's been thrown onto you a lot more in that I tend to ride your coattails when it comes to the vision thing. We're having conversations about that currently. Constructive conversations, good conversations. All that to say, I don't think there's any pressure. I don't think you're alone in that feeling. I feel like we've talked to friends of ours that have that experience where they're like, I have one, and I don't feel either I don't feel prepared to take on another one, I mean, financially it's a huge leap. Emotionally, it's a huge leap. Yes, your kids have each other, but you are committing to a lot and recommitting to challenging parts of childhood and parenting. So that's always the the balance you have to strike. But you'll do great. You're thinking about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:38

Most of the time when people send us questions on the podcast, I'm like, you're thinking about it. That's good. Like, that's huge.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:42

That's a good start.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:43

Yeah. Plenty of people aren't thinking about it, and they're just doing it.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:47

That's true.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:48

And uh, you know, at least you're weighing your your options and the consequences.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:53

I agree.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:53

On that note, I think we should continue the rest of our day after the pod.

Wrap Up And Listener Callouts

SPEAKER_03 1:00:58

Sounds good. We'll talk to you all soon.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:59

Hope that you have a wonderful week and rate, subscribe, review, leave us a voicemail, send it to 17 of your friends, do all the stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:09

Bye.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:10

Love you.