Overthinking with the Overbys
Welcome to Overthinking with The Overbys! In this podcast series, Jo and Matt Overby cover a wide variety of topics—from parenting lessons, life stories, to personal relationships. Take an inside look on the lives of Jo and Matt as they navigate the adventures of adulthood and overthink online.
New episodes available weekly!
Overthinking with the Overbys
Back to School and Basket Cases
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
We catch up on the chaos of a new kindergarten routine, a sweaty late-night recording, and a behind-the-scenes Sonic shoot that proves memorising lines is harder than it looks. Then we shift into internet misinformation, messy AI labels, and two listener questions where we get serious about change, mental health, and boundaries.
Join us as we get into:
• adjusting to real school routines and the stress of new systems
• travelling for a Sonic fall campaign and navigating on-set nerves
• fact-checking dry shampoo fear, benzene headlines and how misinformation spreads
• how AI search crawlers miss reliable sources and why “AI generated” labels confuse people
• the Wicker trailer discourse, memes and why whimsy feels rare
• Word of the Week: Muckrake
• college transition advice, making friends by showing up and using campus resources
• family gossip dynamics, emotional labour and opting out of holidays without guilt
If you've got a thought to share or are looking for a bit of advice on something, leave us a voicemail at the link below!
https://www.speakpipe.com/overthinkingpod
If you'd like to message us you can use the email below or the text link at the top overthinking@theoverbys.com
CONNECT:
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Instagram: @jojohnsonoverby / @matt.overby
Website: https://jojohnsonoverby.com/
Late Night Studio Check-In
SPEAKER_02Hi, new friends. Happy to have you. Thank you. It's 9 p.m. We never record in the evening, but the good news is I'm not going to be yawning.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, that's great. It's huge. Although I just said yawn and now you're about to go to bed. About to yawn. No, it's just because I said it. Uh, but it is 10 trillion degrees in the studio. Matt keeps saying he's gonna finish out the office space and add our air conditioner. And instead, I have an ice bucket in front of a fan. So week two of that.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Well, to be fair, we just recorded, you know.
SPEAKER_02So stop ruining the movie magic.
SPEAKER_00Okay, fine. Well, sometimes we record right before it comes out, and sometimes we record ahead of time. We keep them on their toes.
SPEAKER_02Really, ideally, it'd be ahead of time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02All the time. We've just had a weird couple of weeks. We had been on a really good run.
SPEAKER_00Summer. Summer's
First Week Of Kindergarten Reality
SPEAKER_00been weird.
SPEAKER_02Summer is always just it's not the normal schedule, you know. We did back to school. We officially have a kindergartner.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that I mean, when you say back to school, it's our first time sending a kid to real school.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's been really weird.
SPEAKER_00Because the difference in preschool and sending a kid to kindergarten is there is a time that stuff has to happen.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Preschool, they're like, we would like them here at this time, but you know, it's it's ultimately preschool.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Real school, they're like, hey, your kid has not been to school on time. I assume we haven't done that yet.
SPEAKER_02I was about to say, you're making it sound like we've been late. We've been on time every day.
SPEAKER_00Just I assume at some point they're like, hey, your kid has to be here for school.
SPEAKER_02Okay, before we continue, I am drinking a culture pop today because that's all we had in the fridge that wasn't caffeinated.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I've been asking for more drinks, and Matt just like tripled down on energy drinks.
SPEAKER_00I I do need to restock the fridge. That's true.
SPEAKER_02Do we not have triple energy drinks?
SPEAKER_00Well, I restocked the energy drinks first.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you restocked Sam's club.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I went to Sam's Club. Also, some got some showed up in the mail today. I know, they did. That's true. So it wasn't just me. It was the universe was restocking everything.
SPEAKER_02You double stocked energy drinks in order to get me my favorites. And then the universe brought us another.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there was a complaint on the last podcast that your preferred energy drink wasn't in the fridge. So I went and went ahead and acquired those, and then some showed up in the mail today. Some seasonal ones. So ta-da.
SPEAKER_02Some witch's brew.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Some red apple. Wait, not red apple. Apple, red.
SPEAKER_00I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Red something.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's a brew and then like a red apple version of it.
SPEAKER_02I'm excited to try it.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02I've been really trying to lower my caffeine. Wait, did you say what you're drinking?
SPEAKER_00No, I'm drinking a members mark hard seltzer. Yeah, you are. Which they're actually produced locally.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. They're good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they are good.
SPEAKER_02I have been actually trying to lower my caffeine intake. Today I've only had 120 milligrams.
SPEAKER_00I'm just counteracting my caffeine intake with alcohol.
SPEAKER_02It's my first caffeine in three days.
SPEAKER_00You haven't had caffeine in three days?
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00Wow.
SPEAKER_02I had caffeine today.
SPEAKER_00Got it. Is that why you've been so tired?
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. It's like, that would be hilarious.
SPEAKER_02I've been so tired because I haven't slept.
SPEAKER_00Okay. That that makes sense too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00All good options.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00What have we been up to?
SPEAKER_02Back to school.
SPEAKER_00Back to school. That's what we did.
SPEAKER_02Back to school.
SPEAKER_00It has been all consuming.
SPEAKER_02It's been all consuming. That's been the focus. I've been really stressed because new processes and all the the new learning to pick up, learning how to drop off, learning what things we need and what involvement the parents are supposed to have, etc. That all is stressful to me first time. And so I have been giving that all of my energy. But I think I have most of the big stuff through now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And uh I'm feeling good about week two.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I'm looking forward to having like a full week with
Sonic Fall Campaign Behind The Scenes
SPEAKER_00a set routine. Everybody knows what they're doing. Should be really good.
SPEAKER_02Also, I finally get to reveal this week what I was out of town for.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because uh, if you're listening to this, it went live yesterday. You can go watch it. Um, but I got to go to North Carolina with Sonic.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Sonic. And I got to be in their fall campaign for their uh Hottum menu.
SPEAKER_00Hottum.
SPEAKER_02Yep. It's hot.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But it's autumn.
SPEAKER_00It is.
SPEAKER_02And uh that was really fun. I felt very uh honored to get to go out there and do it. I learned that I am not much of an actress.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Actually, I didn't learn that. I think I knew that going in.
SPEAKER_00You were pretty worried about it going in.
SPEAKER_02I like I think you're a pretty good actor. Not like you're gonna go be in films, that's not what I mean.
SPEAKER_00If if the character's me, I can do it.
SPEAKER_02I can't. I can't even play myself.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I think I could play myself if it was a room full of people I knew. Like if you gave me three days to get to know everybody, and then I'm on set, I think I could play myself and only myself. But putting me in a room with a bunch of people I have never met before, no, I was not thriving.
SPEAKER_00That's fair.
SPEAKER_02I told everybody there, I was like, I can have a good attitude, I can brave the warm weather in a sweater, but I am not much in front of the camera.
SPEAKER_00Well, because much like the studio, it was quite hot on set.
SPEAKER_02It was.
SPEAKER_00It was an authentic hotum.
SPEAKER_02Yes, it was an authentic experience. I was sweating in my sweater.
SPEAKER_00They had to act like they were hot.
SPEAKER_02I did not have to act. Yeah. I you could tell I was hot. I looked hot. I was sweating. And you know what? Slay.
SPEAKER_00I mean, again, it's fully accurate.
SPEAKER_02It was really fun though. It was my first time ever being on a working set like that. And so that was a really like crazy experience. And uh everybody was so nice and encouraging and kind. And the other girls and creators that were there were so wonderful. I mean, we just had a ball getting to know everybody, and um, it was a really cool experience. And I uh I don't know, it just feels crazy that I got to go do that.
SPEAKER_00The only other thing we've done like that was the Charman Ed, and that was at our house.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that was way different. It was That's not true, I guess. I'm realizing now that you're saying that, that I have been on a set for that Mr. Clean campaign with Walmart.
SPEAKER_00I forgot about a set for that.
SPEAKER_02I also learned how bad I am on camera at that. I forgot. I literally blocked that out because we've done Sonic, Mr.
SPEAKER_00Clean, and Charmin.
SPEAKER_02Charmin. The anxiety. Oh man, I forgot about that. Now it's all coming back to me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I just get embarrassed. What? Not because I I don't think it's embarrassing to act. I'm embarrassed because I don't think I'm good at it. Got it. And so I don't feel confident.
SPEAKER_00That's fair. Yeah, I mean, I feel like I'm always acting a little bit.
SPEAKER_02And I memorized my lines before I went.
SPEAKER_00You did. Yeah. You were off book.
SPEAKER_02But then uh one of the girls was allergic to blueberries, and she was supposed to have the blueberry drink. And so everything, I was the one that got switched. So I had all new like my drink name and everything was different.
SPEAKER_00That's hilarious because I feel like the one thing you really had to like get down was the drink. Especially you, because uh you're pretty notorious for just kind of getting a specific name. You have to do it a lot because you work with brands and they're like, we want you to say this exact order of words for what our product is. And I think that might be the worst part of it.
SPEAKER_02This I'd be saying busy and gutsy probiotic soda from Culture Pop strawberry and rhubarb flavor or something like that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But they have a specific sequence of words they want you to say. So the thing you were practicing is like, what is my drink name? I didn't.
SPEAKER_02When you get there and they're like, No, that's literally what happened. And it was mortifying. Fair enough. I could not get it stop laughing. So it did happen.
SPEAKER_00You were like, Yeah, okay, I got it.
SPEAKER_02It was so bad. No.
SPEAKER_00It's not so bad. Just like that is something you struggle with.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, and I was so stressed about it, and then it happened. And then they didn't even use me saying my drink name.
SPEAKER_00So it probably before you probably didn't say your drink name correctly.
SPEAKER_02I did. I didn't know correctly. Yeah. I mean, they filmed it until they got it. Like, shut up.
SPEAKER_00Okay. You're hurting. I didn't know this. I have this is new information. Yeah, we should have discussed this before the podcast, so I was less surprised.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was. You know, she's not an actress.
SPEAKER_00That's fine.
SPEAKER_02But I was happy to be there. Yeah. I want to be not an actress, but like I want to be able to show up to something like that and do a really good job and then be like, oh, she was fun and funny, and but it's just not well.
SPEAKER_00I think you did a good job. You had a good attitude.
SPEAKER_02I had a good attitude. People complimented you on being the one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they were like, you were out in the sun the most of anybody.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. You tolerated the most heat.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they were like, you were nice. Like, thanks. So was everyone else.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. But being nice is important. Being easy to work with is a skill.
SPEAKER_02Well, I now feel placated, so let us move on.
SPEAKER_00Yum.
SPEAKER_02Anyway, that's what I was doing, and I'm excited to get to share it. And everybody that listens should go comment and be like, yay, Joe. So that they want you back? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I want to go back.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I want them to work with me more because I really I'm a passionate Sonic goer.
SPEAKER_00We should have had Sonic as our drinks.
SPEAKER_02Oh, we should have.
SPEAKER_00Or we could just put drinks in Sonic cups.
SPEAKER_02Big miss. Solidarity. No, no. No. We have to other also
Styrofoam Cups And Dry Shampoo Panic
SPEAKER_02while we were there, the Sonic team was telling us that they have clear cups on all their locations now. They don't have styrofoam cups anymore. And I was like, actually.
SPEAKER_00Agree to disagree.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um eh Arkansas antiquated. Like we had clear cups for a second.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And then they switched us back.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, wasn't that like a COVID thing?
SPEAKER_02Well, no, it was the like county or state, I don't know, policy switched over during COVID to where you couldn't have styrofoam cups anymore. Yeah. And then because of COVID, they uh like revoked it. Okay. And then it's never gone back. Got it. But I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Supply chain supply chain constrictions. You had to you just had to use whatever cups you could get.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I don't know. I really don't know. But a styrofoam cup really does hit different.
SPEAKER_00It's it's classic.
SPEAKER_02It's uh the clear cups get so sweaty.
SPEAKER_00That's true.
SPEAKER_02And your drinks don't stay as cold. But I also Joe's anti-environment. She's Yeah, no, I get it. I'm not pro okay. Get out of here. You've just been giving me a hard time.
SPEAKER_00I think supporting styrofoam cups is a hilarious break from your user. Yeah. For everything, really.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Disposable the better.
SPEAKER_02I got a message today, uh, because I shared a dry shampoo that was an aerosol.
unknownOh.
SPEAKER_02And somebody messaged me and was like, you know that this causes brain cancer, right? And so I looked it up. It doesn't. Uh but three years ago they were in a lawsuit for it having benzene.
SPEAKER_00Benzene.
SPEAKER_02Benzene, is that right? Benzene is a problem. Yeah. It had traces, like traceable amounts of benzene in the aerosol. Uh and like 23 different dry shampoos.
SPEAKER_00Sure.
SPEAKER_02Did which I guess and also has been a problem with anything that aerosols.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, benzene's a solvent.
SPEAKER_02But it anyway, they can't link they haven't linked any cancer cases to uh to benzene they have, but not to uh dry shampoos specifically.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no. I yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because I did some reading and the scientists were like, the amount of benzene you're coming in contact with to spray an aerosol, even if it's every morning, is it's not people are like, but it's on my scalp. And they're like, no, the benzene's not no, like there's a lot of stuff on your scalp, to be fair.
SPEAKER_00Your head is exposed to the environment all the time.
SPEAKER_02Well, and that's what I was reading is you come into contact with benzene and other things like that frequently. Your body's made to work through bits of that. It's when it's extended exposure or direct ingestion. The majority of uh cases they've seen are from people who have had extended exposure through chemical plants and things like that. Yeah. Anyway, I it got me researching because I was like, Well, let me, I don't think so, but let me just double check. And I responded back and I said, Hey, this is misinformation. She's like, Really? And so she looked it up. She's like, Oh, well, thanks for telling me that.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's a good response that you got back.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, she was really nice. I I said, you know, I understand where you're coming from because they were sued in 2022 or something like that for having benzene, which can cause cancer. And that made all the headlines be dry shampoo causes, you know.
SPEAKER_00Sure. Yeah, yeah. But that's then the lawsuit wasn't successful.
SPEAKER_02They uh settled out of court. They settled out of court.
SPEAKER_00Oh.
SPEAKER_02But I think just not to take it to Sure. It was like a private study that found it. It's not like it was FDA, you know what I mean? Got it. I don't know. Anyway, I did a bunch of reading about that.
SPEAKER_00Got it. It was a single private study.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00As opposed to like a broadly correct. Sure.
SPEAKER_02And so when it came down to it, what I read was saying that to do all the research and all the things they would have to do to support whatever was gonna cost more, like substantially more than just settling out with Yeah. I think it they ended up settling for two and a half million.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Yeah. I mean, to defend it or to prove it's either way.
SPEAKER_02Johnson Johnson or something like that product or uh PNG. I don't know, Procter Gate. I have no idea.
SPEAKER_00One of like the three Unilever. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's not Unilever because Unilever was sued the year before for 13 of their dry shampoos. You've definitely I know I like reader.
SPEAKER_00We've definitely read this very recently.
SPEAKER_02I really dove into it.
SPEAKER_00The correction, actually, Unilever uh already settled the year before.
SPEAKER_02Uh well, that's the thing. If somebody's gonna tell like if they tell me something, I'm not gonna just gonna come back and be like, no, that's silly. I'm gonna read about it.
SPEAKER_00That's fair. I mean, at least you weren't like you're an idiot.
SPEAKER_02No. Well, because I don't think anybody's like, well.
SPEAKER_00Okay, that's not I almost said careful.
SPEAKER_02There are that's fair.
SPEAKER_00That's that's a correct response.
SPEAKER_02I think most people are just misled and misinformed.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I do think there are people who choose to not see the writing on the wall. And that's where it gets to idiot territory for me. But there are so many people that I interact with that I genuinely think have such good intention and they really think that they are helping.
SPEAKER_00Well, the core motivation I think is good.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Just a lot of people are not well versed in how to like really critically analyze some of that stuff.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Or they're intentionally led astray.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00By people that can and choose not to.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so it's great. It's a good environment we're in.
AI Search Crawlers And Label Confusion
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then there's AI that will just be like, yeah, I read something one time.
SPEAKER_02I've been AI, I've been reading about more and more AI stuff.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I uh read this. Nope. I think I watched a video of a girl talking about it. It's this girl that's doing a lot of deep dive uh research into AI. Like she's been trying to plug brands that don't exist online. Like she's creating them to see how long it takes her to have it pop up in AI results as well.
SPEAKER_00She's she's feeding misinformation to AI crawlers.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And she's doing it on purpose for research. Yeah, it's a research.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And uh she said that like 60% of websites now have anti- Oh, I saw I saw this. Oh, you did? Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I saw this exactly. Okay. Yeah. 60%. So like consumer reports and a lot of very like people that do pretty thorough research, like over half of searches are performed now by bots or AI.
SPEAKER_02Crawlers.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, as opposed to human beings.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00And so the majority of searches are now these crawlers. And so they have the ability to toggle their content to be crawled or not. And so Yeah, like you said, 60% of reliable.
SPEAKER_02Are is not accessible by crawlers that are looking for the answers to your questions that you plug into an AI platform.
SPEAKER_00I wonder if Google's is different because they have so much of that data captured already.
SPEAKER_02I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Because they're the search people.
SPEAKER_02I don't know. Are they Claude?
SPEAKER_00No, no, no. Claude is anthropic. Chat GPT is um open AI.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Well they do Gemini, which is their like in-house.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so Claude announced this week that they are uh like marking in the back end everything that comes out of it. Like there will be a invisible whatever.
SPEAKER_00And so people will be able to scrape for that in publishing and writing and things like that to see if AI was used to Oh, there'll be some kind of marker for like this was generated by whatever Claude model got it.
SPEAKER_02And so I thought that was really I don't know. A lot of it's just really interesting. And I know who will never do that?
SPEAKER_00Grok. Grok will never do that.
SPEAKER_02What else I saw was uh Canva, well, actually Meta, when you're uploading to Instagram, they are trying to do more this content was AI generated.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So if there's anything in the background that used an AI tool, uh it is now being flagged. The issue being that Canva tools that have existed since before generative AI, and they're technically um assistive AI tools. Yeah. So like background eraser, things like that, things that people don't associate with how we think about artificial intelligence.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because you're thinking of generative, you know.
SPEAKER_00Large language models is what people are referring to mostly when they're talking about AI now, because machine learning falls under. Well, I've seen people debate whether I think AI might be like a subset of machine learning technically, or it's the other way around. I don't know. I'm not a computer scientist.
SPEAKER_02Okay. But if you use Canva and you remove the background from something and then use that in your graphic and everything else is yours and you upload it to Instagram, it shows up as AI generated now.
SPEAKER_00Well, I'm sure like a lot of Photoshop tools and I ran into that with a Photoshop tool years ago.
SPEAKER_02I used an AI assistive to get rid of like a light fixture in a picture that I'd done. And when I uploaded it, it listed it as AI generated. Oh, my image. And I have never used an AI assisted tool in Photoshop since. I've always just done it by hand after that because it's not that big of like it's the difference between 30 seconds and three minutes for me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And so um I just do it myself now. But I they've been doing that for a long time, but now doing the background remover from Canva and all this, it's really interesting. And people are really frustrated about it because what people associate with something being labeled as AI generated is not removing the background from a product photo.
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell No, no, no, no. People when they see AI generated, they assume basically the entire image or significant portions of what is presented, the valuable information is the literacy around all of it is just really interesting to me.
SPEAKER_02I'm curious to see how it continues.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they're having to change a lot of stuff just because, well, mainly because Europe and the rest of the world is like, hey, we gotta cool it with this stuff. Yeah. Which is good. I'm glad. No, totally.
Wicker Trailer Discourse And Memes
SPEAKER_02Uh Chronically Online this week, I have a good one. Okay. I'm so excited to talk to you about this. And we've talked about it a little bit, but I had a conversation with my best friend on the phone, and she was like, Ugh, that weirds me out. I don't understand that. Before I gave my, and she immediately was yucking my yum, but didn't know it.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02Wicker.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Well, give people a base. Explain if they have not seen the wicker dialogue, what we're talking about.
SPEAKER_02If you are chronically online, especially in the book community, this week or the last couple of weeks, you are seeing the trailer for Wicker, which is a movie coming out, I don't know when, sometime.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I have no idea. That's not the part that sticks out.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And it is very fairy tale-esque, in my opinion. That is not how other people are seeing it, I guess.
SPEAKER_00How are other people seeing it?
SPEAKER_02I don't know. From how Jay responded, she was like, What is this weird like kink thing? Like, I don't know. Like, she just thought it was some weird, like, sex movie. Well And it is it in in a way, I guess. But
SPEAKER_00Oh A, we're only judging it from the trailer.
SPEAKER_02Right. Which is the thing.
SPEAKER_00And the trailer I feel like is is filmed you know what it reminds me of, honestly, in the way the trailers are presented, is a little bit of um Wuthering Heights.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00In terms of like, yes, they are going for like the sexy grab.
SPEAKER_02She loved Wuthering Heights.
SPEAKER_00And I Oh, I actually We had a good Rose session on the podcast about Wuthering Heights.
SPEAKER_02And people loved it. And I mean the visuals were obviously unbelievable. And obviously Margot Robbie and uh what's his brilliantly acted.
SPEAKER_00What's his visually um I had it and then you asked me what I'm saying? Jacob Alordy.
SPEAKER_02Jacob Alordy. Obviously, they are very hot.
SPEAKER_00Like they're hot? Yes to all of that. They act very well.
SPEAKER_02Like But I thought it was the most boring. Nothing happened.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And then the end I was like, dude. Which is kind of how I felt about the book. So you know.
SPEAKER_00Have you read the book?
SPEAKER_02I have.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02Once upon a time.
SPEAKER_00Got it. Okay. I didn't think you'd read the book, so I think I have.
SPEAKER_02Now I'm really questioning myself. Have I not?
SPEAKER_00I don't know. I again, I thought you hadn't read it. I don't think you've read it.
SPEAKER_02You're blowing my mind right now.
SPEAKER_00It's like there's so much I think there's a lot of depth and nuance in the book that is really hard because yeah. The people that are the book is like a classic.
SPEAKER_02No, you're right. You're right, you're right, you're right. I'm thinking of um The Odyssey.
SPEAKER_00No, I have to read it. No, which I have not read the city.
SPEAKER_02I know you haven't read The Odyssey. Um I know I haven't read The Odyssey. I'm thinking of Oh, I can't remember the name now.
SPEAKER_00Jane Eyre?
SPEAKER_02No. It's one of those.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Which I shouldn't have gotten confused because I saw the movie. But anyway.
SPEAKER_00Little Women.
SPEAKER_02No, I love Little Women.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02And I liked the movie. Okay. I know.
SPEAKER_00I don't think I've seen the movie or read the book.
SPEAKER_02They were I I really I liked the new movie and I liked that book. Well, dang, now I'm sitting here thinking that you just like really messed with me because I'm like, wow.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because it's the book I think I just convinced myself I'd read it. Because it's the one that has all the languages really uh old English like not old English. But yeah, it's like written in a really weird uh Oh, I couldn't tell you. Like there's a lot of words that don't really translate to modern language. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean it's quite old.
SPEAKER_02I've read passages from it.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02I I know I've read passages from it.
SPEAKER_00Fair enough.
SPEAKER_02I'm remembering my Mr. Clean. I'm remembering that I couldn't read Weathering Heights because it was, you know, above my reading level.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Everything's coming back to me.
SPEAKER_00You're a good reader with a limited vocabulary.
SPEAKER_02I really am. Yeah. Anyway, so Wicker.
SPEAKER_00I just think the commercial like the com commercial trailer, they remind me of each other in terms of they're clearly there to hook you on the sexual side of it.
SPEAKER_02Interesting.
SPEAKER_00Now I think with Wuthering Heights, they basically showed all of the interesting parts in the trailer.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. But I hope Wicker's not like that.
SPEAKER_00I don't know. TBD. Actually, now that I've compared the two, I'm like, uh-oh, Wicker might be terrible.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think that Wicker's interesting because none of it is uh, well, minimal CGI.
SPEAKER_00Oh.
SPEAKER_02It's an actual costume.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. That makes, you know what? With Skarsgard, that makes a lot of sense. Of course, he's wearing like an insane wicker. He he was probably in makeup for like nine hours before they had to film. He's in there at like 2 a.m. so they can shoot at 11.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That checks out.
SPEAKER_02Like it is a full costume.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I don't know. I think it's gonna be interesting.
SPEAKER_00For sure. Is it a book?
SPEAKER_02I don't know, actually.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. Just because you said the book community was like really I think that they just like horny stories about wooden people.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think they like horny stories, but I also think that modern television and movies has have lacked a lot of whimsy and a lot of originality.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02And people are really excited because they were like there's a lot of commentary that's like, well, you said you wanted to see something you'd never seen before, you know?
SPEAKER_00You wanted new stories, here's a new story. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02And so, and I think for some people, they're like, Yeah, and I'm excited to see like what we do. Yeah. And I think it's a really cool the whole concept's really interesting to me. And I like the fairy tale aspect of like you have this incredibly talented creative that lives in their town that, you know, weaves baskets and is gonna build this, you know, it's like very Pinocchio-esque in a way, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. What if a basket could bug?
SPEAKER_02Okay. That's not Pinocchio-esque. That's not. He's a boy. Okay. Get out of here.
SPEAKER_00It's like Pinocchio three. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I'm like, okay. Uh, but it's been absolutely killing me the memes and stuff that are going viral right now from it. It's like men's fashion this fall, and it's just anything weaved. Like, like it's like a woven vest, a woven pair of pants. It's like a man wearing a basket.
SPEAKER_00Like a thick weave, because that would actually be like kind of terrible for fall.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I saw a hilarious one that was at a movie theater. It was a worker and they had a basket and they were like, we have our new popcorn buckets for this.
SPEAKER_00Like that would be good. Oh yeah. So they're $45 for the bucket.
SPEAKER_02And then people who are there is a whole community of basket weavers, you know, people who are really passionate about this, and they've been really funny because they're making content and being like, wow, what a weird time to have this username. Or like, because they're like wicker, wicker lover, wicker daddy.
unknownExactly.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. And so that's been anyway. To me, I've been delighted. I'm relishing in the because it's just kind of goofy. I I like fun. No, exactly. It's fun. I don't feel like it's hurting anyone. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02There's nothing.
SPEAKER_00Very few people have been hurt by baskets, living wicker people.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I think that's fun. Like I think it's bringing people together and they're being silly goofy. And uh a lot of people are really I I've seen a lot of debate on the integrity of a well-woven basket and whether that's gonna give you splinters. Um, and people really like getting into that, which is really interesting. Sure. Uh, and then people will be like, look, if we can imagine that there is a wicker man, we can imagine splinters don't exist for an hour and a half, whatever whatever it is.
SPEAKER_00Like, are people analyzing like here's how you would treat wicker so that you wouldn't get absolutely demolished?
SPEAKER_02Well, and I guess the thing that I learned from somebody who is uh like wicker basket expert, they they do this. They were like, well, if it's expensive and well made, they're coated and like they have all these, like there eat there's no reason you should be getting a splinter from a well-done basket.
SPEAKER_00Got it. Yeah, do you know what I'm thinking of that's not really related to wicker at all?
SPEAKER_02One what I didn't think of.
SPEAKER_00You're we have a wicker basket. It's not on either of our small camera or direct cameras, but it's on the big camera.
SPEAKER_02Can you see it?
SPEAKER_00An ode to wicker. Yeah. Dead center of the shot.
SPEAKER_02Good.
SPEAKER_00We've been wickering since before it was cool.
SPEAKER_02Uh what it what were your thoughts?
SPEAKER_00No, this what this was making me think of is there's an always sunny in Philadelphia episode where they have a oh, they're they're going on a road trip, and at one point they get wicker chairs, and then they burn the wicker chairs. But the wicker chairs have been coated in something. You saying the wicker would be coated if it's nice wicker made me think of this. But they burn the wicker chairs within this U-Haul trailer that they're sitting in. They got the chairs to sit in so they could ride anyway. And they pass out from the wicker chairs.
SPEAKER_02Oh, like it's yeah, it's coated in a chemical. Yes.
SPEAKER_00The fumes knock them out. Yeah, it's good.
SPEAKER_02You love it. Not related to that. I mean, kind of.
SPEAKER_00Uh very niche and not at all to the actual discussion of wicker. Yeah, well. Or having sex with baskets.
SPEAKER_02I guess in the European, the UK trailer, uh, it uh has full nudity of the basket man.
SPEAKER_00Really? Okay. Wow. Have you seen the European trailer? Surely we can go hold the thoughts.
SPEAKER_02I'm just really curious about the movie as a whole still. I'm like, all right. We're like, is this, you know?
SPEAKER_00Can you verbally describe it?
SPEAKER_02What no.
SPEAKER_00No? Okay.
SPEAKER_02A wicker penis.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02Like, I it there's nothing anymore. I don't know. I didn't look that close.
SPEAKER_00I have so many questions now, but I feel like you're not gonna be able to answer them. No, because I it's you didn't like freeze frame and hands. No, I didn't see it. Okay, got it. Okay, sure. Sure, sure, sure. Now uh I don't want to Google wicker penis.
SPEAKER_02I just can look up the UK trailer.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, okay, that's fair. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Out of your options on the phone.
SPEAKER_00My attention span is so short, I'm like, what if I I've surely somebody is freeze framed and I don't watch a whole trailer. Give me the spark notes on Wicker Penis. Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_02I I'm dying. I can't even okay. The other thing that people are really fixated on though is that in the trailer they have like the sound of the basket like expanding. And that's yeah, that's really people really have a lot to say about that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, I've really done a deep dive on um Skarsgard.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02The Skarsgard brothers.
SPEAKER_00There's a bunch of them.
SPEAKER_02There's a whole there there are seven, I think, siblings. Yeah, there's a full six brothers and one sister.
SPEAKER_00And then the children that includes the children. Okay. You know, the seven does, yes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And there are like This is Alexander Skarsgard, I believe, right?
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And people he he does he's in a bunch of weird stuff like this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. He's in one, I forget what it's called, where he's a sex addict.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Uh and then his brother was is my age, and he was it.
SPEAKER_00That's his brother?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I assumed it was like a nephew or a child.
SPEAKER_02No, it's his brother.
SPEAKER_00Because I'm pretty sure Alexander Scarzard is like he's in his forties. Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_02But there are seven of them. So there's brother, brother, brother.
SPEAKER_00Oh, so it's not different generations. They're all siblings?
SPEAKER_02There's seven siblings. And then their dad.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Sorry, I did not know they were all siblings.
SPEAKER_02Are all the same mom.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02And they're they range from like 45 to, I don't know. Oh, that helps explain the age gap. Got it. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I really I dove in because I was, you know, everybody's talking about it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I never watched True Blood.
SPEAKER_00I haven't watched True Blood either.
SPEAKER_02Maybe we should do that.
SPEAKER_00That was a whole thing that was a big thing. I know it was. And I think we were right in the wheelhouse of True Blood.
SPEAKER_02I think that we were just a little too young.
SPEAKER_00We were too young to be appropriate True Blood. True Blood watchers.
SPEAKER_02I feel like Vampire Diaries was not that long after.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And that's the one that got me.
SPEAKER_00Well, I'm pretty sure they were like True Blood is Killing It and More Vampires. Targeted it.
SPEAKER_02Well then you had like Teen Wolf and Yeah, like where are those shows?
SPEAKER_00What about the kids that can't watch it?
SPEAKER_02Why aren't we doing stuff like that anymore? Like, where's the Twilights? The Harry Potter stuff.
SPEAKER_00Aren't they just taking different books now?
SPEAKER_02Divergence, the they're doing Hunger Games stuff.
SPEAKER_00I feel like they'll probably just do Twilight again.
SPEAKER_02You think?
SPEAKER_00I don't know.
SPEAKER_02I don't think so.
SPEAKER_00We're just kind of rehashing everything, right? Yeah. We're gonna do Harry Potter for like a second or third time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm ready for some more stuff.
SPEAKER_00I like, I mean, they know their audience. They're like millennials. They'll just keep watching the same thing forever.
Word Of The Week Muckrake
SPEAKER_02All right. Do you have a word of the week for me?
SPEAKER_00Word of the week. Let's get you a word of the week.
SPEAKER_02Word of the week. Chow, chow. Word of the week.
SPEAKER_00Muck rake.
SPEAKER_02Muck rake?
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_02M-U-K?
SPEAKER_00R M-U-C-K.
SPEAKER_02M-U-C-K.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_02R A. K-E?
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so muck rake.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. What do you think it means?
SPEAKER_02I the only thing I can think of is like a rake to muck a stall.
SPEAKER_00I mean, that's that's not what it is, but that's not the worst try.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00For sure.
SPEAKER_02Does it have to do with baskets?
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_00No, it doesn't have to do with baskets. That would be funny though. Imagine that I had that all locked and loaded. Imagine that I just had it randomly, wicker related without knowing the chronically online. Muckrake, to search for and expose real or alleged corruption or scandal of public figures. Old school investigative journalism. You're No, you don't like it. You're making a face at me. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That doesn't seem applicable for me to use, really. You're not doing a lot of things. We've had a really good run of words that I'm like, I can use that. I can use that. I can incorporate that into my day-to-day. I like it. And I don't feel that way about muckrake.
SPEAKER_00Got it. Well, okay. I tried. I thought that one was fun, but fun? It's it I guess not fun. It's a little heavy. It sounds heavy, the word itself.
SPEAKER_02And the definition's heavy. Yeah. We're talking investigative journalism.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's not our thing.
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02We like to just completely fly by the seat of our pants and perpetuate misinformation.
SPEAKER_00We try to be harmless about it. There's not an intent.
SPEAKER_02I don't think that's how that works, Matt. If you don't intend harm, but harm still happens. You're still Yeah Yeah. Okay, get out of here. Intents, not impact.
SPEAKER_01Correct.
SPEAKER_02What do we have in voicemails? Voicemails, emails.
SPEAKER_00What are people saying to us?
SPEAKER_02Uh I don't know.
SPEAKER_00All right. Let's see what you guys have to say. Because we have said enough, I think.
SPEAKER_02The amount of times we said a wicker penis this episode's scaring me.
SPEAKER_00We had a good one that uh I'm excited to do because it's A, timely and B, uh I think a good a good question.
SPEAKER_02Matt's gonna read you an email now. Everybody bear with him. He usually hands me the phone, but he's feeling bold tonight.
SPEAKER_00This one's not super long. When they're long, I'm like, Joe, you're gonna have to do this because I will get caught up in the middle of it. Also, when they get long, I start reading really fast to try and get it.
SPEAKER_02You do that no matter what. Like you lose the punctuation of a paragraph entirely. Like, period, who who's that? It's one run-on sentence to me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's life. One run-on sentence.
Surviving The First Semester Away
SPEAKER_00I'm preparing to leave for college in two weeks for the first time. My senior year of high school was really hard for me mentally, both because of my class workloads and because of social things. I've continued to struggle with my mental health through the summer because of various factors. Most prominent being starting this fall, I will be three and a half hours away from home and farther than that from most of my friends. Do you guys have any advice for getting settled in a college for the first time or for dealing with big changes such as this? I've really enjoyed listening to the podcast and I've loved all of the bits and pieces of life advice I've picked up through listening, even if it's stuff that isn't quite applicable to me yet. Anyway, thanks for reading the email.
SPEAKER_02Well, now I'm imagining a high school senior listening to us talk about wicker, and I'm feeling guilty.
SPEAKER_00They're 18 or almost 18.
SPEAKER_02Almost 18 is having me feel guilty. Anyway, uh, hope you have a grown-up's permission to be listening. Anyway, uh talk to an adult about wicker penises. Remember going into college, and the first semester of college was so hard because I thought it was going poorly because I had not made close friends yet. And so many people I saw that came into college with groups of friends and people they knew. Um, and I went to a school where I didn't know anyone. I mean, you went there, but I never saw you.
SPEAKER_00We quite literally on campus never saw each other.
SPEAKER_02Not a single time.
SPEAKER_00Like in passing.
SPEAKER_02Never. And we did Matt and I did not run in the same friend, like it's not like I came to University of Arkansas and started hanging out with Matt's friends. Like we had no overlap in our social group, any of that. And so I struggled my first semester a lot. And the thing that I wish I could go back and tell myself is to not worry about it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like I think that if I would have had the mindset of, oh, this is gonna work itself out, I could have breathed a lot easier and just enjoyed the social experiences I was having. But I was trying so hard to make relationships rather than letting relationships happen.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02If that makes any sense. My biggest recommendation is go to the things. Like when you see events going on, whether it's through your college or your department, or if you decide to be in a club or organization, Greek life, intramural sports, whatever. There's so many things that you can get involved in.
SPEAKER_00And do as much as you can. Like that you want to. Try and do all of those things. If you spend your time doing the social side of stuff.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00If there's a thing where there's food and just go to it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And find some people that are down to go to it also.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00You'll probably see the same people at a lot of that stuff.
SPEAKER_02You do, yeah.
SPEAKER_00There's a there's a good section of college kids that are like, free pizza, yeah, I'm in. Yeah, I don't know what it's for, but I'll go there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And I think just make friends. Yeah. I like I think that if you're struggling with your mental health, obviously, if you have the privilege to talk to somebody, absolutely talk with somebody.
SPEAKER_00And there might be resources through school.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. But I I think it's really lowering the pressure and realizing that in time it's gonna work itself out. Like I wish at 18 I'd made a list of what is important right now. Because at the time, like I was working and I had to pay for like my insurance and the gas in my car and some stuff like that. But the bills were paid from the work I was doing. I was making it to classes, I was doing okay in school. And beyond that, I don't think there was much to stress about.
SPEAKER_00No, I mean that's back.
SPEAKER_02It's hard when you're in it, though. But I really don't think that I had somebody talking to me that way. Like I was being spoken to, like, these are the best years of your life. You better enjoy every second because it only gets harder from here, and you better be doing well in school. Because if you don't do well in school, then your whole life's over and you need to be focused on getting an internship, or you won't be able to get a job, and the job market's impossible. And you're gonna like there was just all of these things that were spoken into me in my college time that as I've gotten older, I'm like, none of that's true.
SPEAKER_00Here's the deal. If it is true, that's also out of your control. And not to go completely nihilist and go, well, if you can't control it, like what are you gonna do? But if you can't control it, what are you gonna do?
SPEAKER_02But it's not that way either.
SPEAKER_00Totally. No, but you have but the things you can control is like focus on your studies and take as many social opportunities as you can.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think if you can do those two things, you're doing college the right way.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_00And I think being three and a half hours from family, you're still kind of in that sweet spot.
SPEAKER_02You can go home for a weekend.
SPEAKER_00You can go home. Somebody can make a round trip like weekend, or if you can't even if you can't do a day trip, but even a day trip, that's seven hours round trip, which is a lot, but it can be done. You need to go home for some reason, or but it it's also not so close that you're just gonna do it out of comfort.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00You know, or somebody's not gonna drop in on you, you know, three and a half hours away. There's a little bit of heads up, and that's I think a really good place to be. And if you're struggling with social situations, this is a great opportunity to kind of wipe the slate clean in that regard. And if you're having anxiety, that kind of thing, again, if you're having individual mental health struggles, try and look into that more. Maybe there's some options to to tackle that. But this is a great opportunity to go, you know what? This is something I'm gonna change. I can be a new person. You change your name, basically.
SPEAKER_02Like No, I did. Yeah. Yeah. I I went by Jordan my entire life and then I got to college and I'm like, I'm Joe now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. An alter ego.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Do that.
SPEAKER_02Matt stated both of her.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. Anyone that knows you from high school calls you Jordan. And anyone that knows you from college on calls you Joe.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And it's a real easy way. And I did both.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. One of my childhood best friends came to visit a couple weeks ago and was hanging out with my group of friends that we hang out with here in town. And she kept saying, Well, then Jordan did this. And all of them were like, uh.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It's really odd.
SPEAKER_02She's like, I'm sorry. I just, she's always and they're like, No, it's fine. And she was apologizing to me. I said, I don't care.
SPEAKER_00You can call me whatever you want. No, I mean, it's your name. Yeah. It's like if somebody calls me Matt. Not that I'm Ever really gone by Matthew, but it's it's still my name. It's not offensive. But no, I think you're like it's a really exciting season. And if it's hard, that's normal too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. It was really hard for me. I got home over Christmas break and I was like, do I want to go back? I don't feel like I've made friends. And I I went back and second semester was a lot better.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. No, there's gonna be a lot of it's so much change and so much transition. But if you give it time and you put yourself in situations that aren't comfortable initially, understand that nobody's comfortable. Everyone is faking it.
SPEAKER_02Truly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's that's gonna be the rest of your life, honestly. But if you can kind of grab that mindset and not it doesn't, it's not all critical. You're gonna be okay. And it's gonna be a really cool opportunity. And like I said, three and a half hours, that's a great place to be. And that worse comes to worse, you can go home, but it's not just right there. So because we were two hours, two hours from our family and friends, and it was great.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It wasn't so close that you would go do all your laundry there, but also you had to go, you could go.
SPEAKER_02Totally. What else we got?
SPEAKER_00All right.
SPEAKER_02Let's do one more.
SPEAKER_00All right, it's a long one. Joe's gonna have to read it.
SPEAKER_02Matt's handed over the phone. It really is a long one.
Family Gossip And Holiday Boundaries
SPEAKER_02I'd love your advice on a family situation. I come from a blended family, and now that we're all in our 30s, most of my siblings and I have settled into a healthy rhythm. We all have our own lives, check in occasionally, and enjoy spending time together when we can. But there's but there aren't a lot of expectations. The challenge is my sister-in-law. She has a pattern of gossiping about nearly everyone in the family, including my brother, her own husband. Over the years, I've asked her to stop speaking negatively about people around me, but it never changed. Eventually, I chose to create some distance, not in a dramatic way, but by limiting contact outside of family gatherings. Recently, I found out I had become the topic of conversation between her and my cousins, who I'm very close with. They were shocked by what was said. And honestly, I'm at the point in life where I'm just too old and too tired for this kind of drama. She's also five years older than I am, which somehow makes it even more frustrating. I talked to my brother and his response was essentially, that's just who she is. That even her friends don't talk to him because she gossips about him. When I address it directly with her, she would never take ownership. On top of that, I don't have a relationship with my other sister for unrelated reasons, but have heard them gossip about me through others. So every holiday feels like walking into an emotional minefield. The hardest part is my parents. They tend to put the responsibility on me to keep the peace because they know I'll still show up. They've admitted that they're afraid to confront my siblings because those siblings will completely cut them off, while they know I'll continue having a relationship with them even if we disagree while the others don't. This year I'm seriously considering telling my parents that I won't be attending family holidays anymore because the emotional toll has become too much. I know they'll be hurt and probably angry, but I also feel like I'm sacrificing my own peace just to keep everyone else comfortable. I believe forgiveness is important, but I also believe in respect, accountability, and boundaries. My immediate family seems to believe that people can behave however they want because we're family and everyone should simply move on. I don't think family should excuse repeated disrespect or just plain unsupported behavior. So my question is, is there a respectful way to tell my parents that I need to step away from family holidays for my own well-being without making it feel like I'm punishing them? Or is this one of those situations where protecting your peace simply means accepting that someone will be disappointed and angry?
SPEAKER_01Ooh.
SPEAKER_02It's accepting that somebody's gonna be disappointed and angry. Yeah. Here's the thing is there is the fact of whether something is disrespectful or not. And then there is the fact of whether somebody feels disrespected.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And they're not the same thing. Saying, hey, this situation makes me feel really uncomfortable and bad, so I'm not gonna put myself in it isn't disrespectful.
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_02Choosing to not go to a family holiday is not disrespectful. It it's just not. Now, saying that you're gonna go and then not showing up, that's disrespectful. Like there are ways that it can be disrespectful.
SPEAKER_00Going and undermining it and like causing issues. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's disrespectful. But blatantly just stating, I'm not gonna go, it doesn't feel good to me. It's not at the root of it, something that you talked about that I I actually just sent Matt something. I I doubt you've even watched it because I sent it to you tonight. Um I sent you this video that I watched today about how being the one who always uh is self-sufficient and gets it done and people don't have to worry about XYZ. It's only because you have been agreeable in order to make it easy for other people. And really that's not a benefit to them. They're choosing to not prioritize you because they know that it's easier to disappoint you than somebody else. Like you will hold them less accountable. And so they're just gonna put it on you because they can. And that's way easier because they know you're not gonna throw a fit.
SPEAKER_00We both do that.
SPEAKER_02No, we do. We do, and it it's a huge problem in our lives.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, we have become, you know, the I don't even know what would go there. Everything kind of for a while, not anymore. I feel like it's really shifted because we've put our foot down, but it's also as we've put our foot down, it's eliminated a lot of relationships.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's definitely it's strained some for sure.
SPEAKER_02It has been shocking to see that when I don't plan my life around specific people, how quickly they dissipate from my life almost entirely.
SPEAKER_00You've confronted it a lot more directly than I have.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00I for me, mine is much more of a just like, well, I'll just step back quietly. I I've done a little bit and it's not gone the best. But you've you've tried to just be like straight up, this is what's up, and if this is how it's gonna be, this is how I'm gonna handle it. And they're like, okay.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_00And that's just how it's they called my bluff.
SPEAKER_02No, I know.
SPEAKER_00In the past it's been a bluff. Right.
SPEAKER_02That's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_00This is the first time you were like, you know what, this is a real boundary this time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I can't say it's not hurtful. Like it does hurt, and it does hurt to work through that, oh these people It doesn't mean enough. Yeah. Like Well, and I I understand that sentiment of like because we're family, that means X, Y, Z.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it's not always the case.
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_02Um, that's a really good line when it benefits others. And I've learned that it doesn't always go both ways.
SPEAKER_00Well, the problem is, especially when it's a parent-child dynamic, one of those people chose their family, and one of those people exists purely as a choice of the other person.
SPEAKER_02Well, there's a lifelong power imbalance with a parent-child relationship. There always will be because as a child, you always, no matter what you go through, you want the approval and love and affection of your parent. I think that it is a instinctual human thing. And it's what makes those relationships so difficult if they aren't mutually respectful. Yeah, and mutually respectful, 100%. And so I don't know. What I would say is if you don't want to go to the holidays, don't go to the holidays.
SPEAKER_00And what I would say is if you still want to see your parents, if you still want to see individual members of your family, set that up individually. Go, I'm not coming to the family holiday. I'm happy to celebrate Christmas with you. I'm happy to go. If everyone's doing Christmas, I'll come for New Year's, like whatever that is. And go, I'm not, I'm not willing to be the person that makes Christmas tolerable for everybody. You're gonna have to deal with that yourself.
SPEAKER_02But there's also the option of letting all that go.
SPEAKER_01Sure.
SPEAKER_02And showing up and not treating it like it's an emotional landmine, I think.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02This is something I've been really working on when I'm showing up in those spaces, is I'm showing up and I am myself and I am doing what I would usually do. And if people are gossiping and talking smack and doing that whole thing, so be it. I I don't want to get involved. I don't need to put in my two cents, I don't need to defend myself. I mean, if it's coming directly to and we're having a direct conversation, like somebody's addressing something with me, then I will have that dialogue.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But if But we come from two very indirect families.
SPEAKER_02But if my sister-in-law, which I don't have a sister-in-law, so like if my sister-in-law was talking to my brother, don't have a brother either, but and uh about me and then my cousins told me that they were I'm out. Like I I would just immediately say, I don't need to hear, like, if I wasn't there, I don't need to hear it. What other people say when I'm not there is none of my business. And so be it. You know who I am or you don't, and that's what it is. And you can make that choice to go and know that you can leave, and um, that's always an option too.
SPEAKER_00Now, if you've already done that, maybe it sounds a little bit like you've tried to go that way. And if you've run out of run out of slack on that line, then yeah, I would say prioritize the relationships that are important to you. Like I said, if your parents are the people that you feel obligated to or that you want to maintain a relationship with, great. And just go, I'm not gonna be the peacekeeper. I'm not gonna be the person that makes this holiday tolerable for everybody else by making it miserable for me. And go see your friends on Christmas, go do whatever you need to do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And you'll be happier for it. And honestly, if you choose to step out of that role, it's probably gonna force other people to make moves that they've been choosing not to.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00Or it's gonna dissolve and then you won't really, I don't know. Or worst case, you'll be held responsible and your family's gonna hate you. But it sounds like it's not much more fun being there either.
SPEAKER_02I also think that if that's the case, it was always the case.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because if the only way that they respect you is by putting an unreasonable burden on you to emotionally labor amongst your family, then that's not really respect and love anyway.
SPEAKER_00No, no, no.
SPEAKER_02They've always felt that way.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. To your point, like the people that know you know you, and the people that don't, they don't.
SPEAKER_02It's it is the crappy reality of life, is like realizing, oh I'm not that important to this person that I I thought I was.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And even though they're taking advantage, like even though they're using so much of your bandwidth, yeah, you're you still won't be important enough for them to be like, oh, I'll I'll figure it out.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Or they will and you'll spur real change.
SPEAKER_02And here's the thing I'll tell you when you start being around people who pour into you the way you pour into them, you're like, what the hell?
SPEAKER_00Nothing like watching a healthy family dynamic and being like, what in the f is this? Like you guys do this on your own?
SPEAKER_02It's it really is baffling. Like I it's interesting because I my childhood friends, like a lot of us came from just complicated family dynamics. Like it's not all bad. Everybody has relationships with their parents and everybody like spends time with their family still. Like, it's not like a no-contact, extreme anything like that for anybody. It was really different for everyone. And the the hard things that my friends were going through, I was like, my parents aren't like that at all. And I was an only child, and I I was like, things are great. And then as I got older and I started interacting with others and like met some people who were from a truly, like really well-balanced, healed home, I was like, Well, this is not the same.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I I give my parents a lot of credit in that there are generational things going on, and I give your parents a lot of credit in this regard too. When you look at the things that have been happening generationally, there is a lot that was healed through one generation, and there's yet still a lot that has been passed down. Yeah. And it's like I can really appreciate and value the things that they have worked through while also really trying for better in the ways that it hasn't quite gotten there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. If you don't have a family of your own, that will be a a phase you go through if you if one day you do have children where you go, What?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00All this stuff I've been told is gonna be different, which I didn't have that experience. You had a lot more of like, well, when you're a parent, you'll understand. And but I've seen it happen. I've been part of it.
SPEAKER_02I feel like I've experienced it more as an adult than I did as a child. Well, I don't remember a lot of things about my childhood.
SPEAKER_00So maybe I did, but I I do feel like I've As a kid, you get a lot more of like, well, just because, because I said so, that's how it is. And then when you get older, it's like, well, now that you can understand that just because isn't a reason, like you'll understand it later.
SPEAKER_02Well, and more recently I've realized that if the explanation behind something is, well, you're not my age, you'll understand when you're my age.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, that's not a real explanation or a real conversation of understanding because I won't, because I will never be your age. In your time. In your time in your situation.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And that makes it your job to if you want to have a relationship and you want me to understand where you're coming from, that makes it your job to explain your perspective and why, which is so valid. Like it is your perspective and it is your why. And there is validity of that truly, just because it's your experience, but it is not the sole reason to write what you were doing or to support what you were doing. And that was a really hard realization for me because I'd always that had just worked on me. I was like, oh yeah, they're you know, they got 30 years on me. They they know more than me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And that was a hard anyway. This isn't the question at all. I'm just diving into my own, my own problems.
SPEAKER_00Unpacking our own therapy sessions.
SPEAKER_02Don't mind me.
SPEAKER_00So hopefully you can glean something from that. Yeah. No, absolutely. I think you you're well within your rights and you will probably be happier for it.
SPEAKER_02And I don't think it's disrespectful to just say, No, you know what, we're not gonna be there this year, or I'm not gonna be there this year. I've chosen to go do something else, you know. I'm sending gifts, so be on the lookout for those.
SPEAKER_00And that's the thing, is you can still, and you're you're very good at this, show up in the ways that you're available to show up, do all of that, and then do not extend past that. Don't do anything that's like, well, she undermined everything and made it all work. Just like send your gifts, do your part, be positive, be good to deal with, and just go, I can't do it.
SPEAKER_02Don't do things centered around you that will make you feel resentful or that you're expecting a specific response from. Like if you're sending gifts with the expectation that that's going to placate or like make it not as sore of a topic, that's the wrong reason to do it. You're sending gifts because you want them to have these things that made you think of them, not and it doesn't go beyond that. You know, that's that's kind of the measure that I've had to start to go by. Totally. Is I'm like, what do I want to do? Um, and what makes me think of the parts of these relationships that I love and the the things about these people that I feel very inspired by. And how can I fixate and center that?
SPEAKER_00It's like uh you you have to do the what would I want my kid to do for me? And you have to completely let go of well, I hope that they will get this response.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You have to just be okay with if I do this thing, I might get nothing.
SPEAKER_02Nothing.
SPEAKER_00I might get a negative response because it makes them feel some kind of way. But you just have to show up in the capacity of this is on this is what I can do. This is what I'm in control of. Like the college thing. It's like there are things you can control and things you can't control. And you're choosing to be like, I can't control the rest of this, and it hurts me to do it. You've you wrote a very thoughtful question, and so I think you've got this. Like you've you've clearly got this uh well
Final Takeaways And Sign-Off
SPEAKER_00thought out.
SPEAKER_02On that note, subscribe, yeah, rate review. We should really say that at the beginning. We'll get better at that.
SPEAKER_00No, we do it at the very end. That way you've clicked it off by this point.
SPEAKER_02So exactly. On that note, we'll see you next week.
SPEAKER_00Later.
SPEAKER_02Bye.